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Post by onijet01 on May 26, 2018 11:32:23 GMT
In another thread i was asking the forum for aid in creating a list.
Here though it has beed done before im looking into creating a Resistance list.
I know Bastions are considered to be poor models yet i think i may have a list that makes them work. (Spoiler warning: Yes Shoe i know your oppinion on them.)
So for the list i started looking at the things most dangerous to the models followed by reaserching their role as difined by whats needed to make them work as i intend.
So to that end i needed to have a checklist for my list.
1. Range Presense. 2. Deffencive buff or accuracy debuff. 3. Pathfinder or Ghostly 4. Damage buff.
So to that end i came up with this. Ashlynn d'Elyse -Nomad -Nomad -Vanguard
Gastone Crosse (free) -Mariner -Mariner
Thorn Gunmages Thorn Gunmages Exemplar Bastions Chior of Menot
Goblin Tinker Ragman Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (free)
So to my thinking between Ashlynns Feat (defensively) and her distraction spell she should be able to keep bastions alive long enough for them to do work into their targets.
Chosen ground and tough from Rhupert can keep them fighting longer with some lucky dice, or they can gain pathfinder/concelment as needed.
Quicken helps them get to locations faster and aids in early turns vs ranged armies.
I wanted Ashlynns battlegroup to focus on melee and have Gastone take care of ranged fire. The mairiner in that roll is best as under both the damage buff of chior and his spell fire group places the jacks at range 17 pow 16 shots. (Spoiler: yes i know the guns limitation but chior have to be close anyway) that also gives him a second line force p+s 17+ melee jacks.
Ragman is to support whatener newds him as his deathfeild should allow bastions (even if only 3 on average can use it) hit at high p+s.
Gunmages are my wildcard units, they are selected for their versatility and potential damage output.
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Fang
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by Fang on May 26, 2018 15:26:21 GMT
Two mariners on Gastonne makes even me stop and say that's a bit risky. But let's roll with it, might be fun with the choir giving +2 to the aoes. Speaking of the choir, you should consider dropping it to a min unit to upgrade the tinkerer into Gibbs (Repo(3) to almost your whole list and hotmeal might actually work with Bastions). Their cmd is terrible anyway, and looking at your list I don't see the need for 6.
You mention pathfinder for the Bastions as a reason to take the Piper but they have pathfinder from the theme bonus already. Tough and concealment are still useful, remember that gunmages have prowl so if the bastions don't need the piper the gunmages will love him.
On Ashlynn and Distraction, from my experience I think you might not want to count on that. Its range 10 in the faction with no general use arc nodes on a 6 focus upkeep caster. This basically means you are probably close enough to be assassinated. Even if you are safe, as its range 10 you are in range of whatever ranged unit you are shutting down so you probably really need to make it stick, so you'll probably end up boosting and thats half her stack, leaving her very vulnerable considering she you will be upkeeping at the very least quicken in order to make the bastion move with the army (probably a defensive spell as well if you are going to be that close to the enemy). Chances are the def debuff isn't greatly needed either, as the things you can use it reliably on are already going to get hit by MAT 8 Bastions or RAT 8 Gunmages fairly reliably as well. The MAT debuff might save the Bastions from being charged I guess, though it a risky play I imagine. If you are going to use distraction, it'll be either feat turn or you are using silly willy.
Those are my thoughts without drastically changing anything with your list. Here are my thoughts that take more liberty on the list building aspect.
I never have been big on ranged jacks myself (except bunnies, who can resist bunnies), 14 points for 1 pow 16 shot/turn is a bit meh. We have cheap jacks so cruise missile approach is usually how I go about it (a talon will probably have similar damage output over the game with LR Choir + debuffs, even though it dies after 1-2 turns of fighting). One way or another, I would drop one of the mariners from Gastonne (ok to be very honest, I would drop both mariners and take a buccy/vanguard or drop gastonne altogether). With some shuffling you can probably grab a 3rd free solo if you drop a marinner, easily if you drop both. You are missing Gibbs which is pretty essential to many LR lists, missing out on Gorman who while not essential I think is fun for choir lists as it gives you a potential 6 armor skew, but more commonly lets you weaken multiple targets.
Even though your choir is providing damage buffs, a Mangler is good for when you really want something heavily armored dead. Because you are taking the choir and damage debuffs, talons can hit above their weight as well as being just pita for the enemy, especially against jacks which go for defense at the cost of armor.
One thing you need to be careful of is how few bodies you have on the field with a choir list, though I'm think it'll be ok (especially if you are used to playing something like it).
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Post by fallenexile on May 26, 2018 16:04:18 GMT
I'm going to echo the case for Gibbs over max Choir. He's just so damn useful and Hot meal on multiwounds that you can spread the damage for seems almost unfair (in theory). Also, allowing Choir to repo back out of harm can also be good.
I also think Sylys needs a place with Ashlynn because he can certainly help negate all the problems mentioned about Distraction. He allows her a free upkeep (1 pseudo-focus), +2 spell range, and a boost to her magic attack roll to help stick the debuff.
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Post by onijet01 on May 26, 2018 16:19:07 GMT
No its a min chior to get that all in at the end of the day two points is what was had.
And gastone ive used befor to some good work with mariners. The reason i chose them actually lies in thresher over the gun as a second wave heavy.
Distraction is very usefull when the bastions have to battle other rolled models like champs. As the def debuff and mat debuff skew into my favor.
I dont plan to sit Ashlynn back, dispute being risky i need the advance pushed with all my models and yah im used to running low model count armies.
If i could grab gibs i would but as the list stands its a far between option
Sylis only modulates the roll not boost. And upkeeps be dammed as it may be prudent but he is not betraying my elves. Also in terms of the list Madelyn would be better as she brings melee immunity to my caster.
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Fang
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by Fang on May 26, 2018 16:44:32 GMT
I'd drop the Piper before I'd drop Gibbs on a LR list myself, but up to you. Other than that Mangler, Talon, Talon on Ashlynn would free up 3 points, drop tinkerer and you can choose out Gibbs for repo + hotmeal, Taryn for shadow fire since you are focusing ranged or Sylys for enabling distraction.
While I'm not sure it'd be a good idea considering its one of your major offensive and control features, a unit of gunmages can also be sacrificed for the solos... Looking at the bastion list I was going to test, I also went with min choir, Bastions max, and 2x gunmages so I probably wouldn't recommend it actually... But I went without Gastonne and the mariners because of my play style, so I got the whole solo boat + got all 3 freebies.
To be honest, the only reason I wanted Bastions with Ashlynn was the defensive line, which got removed. Now I'm back to the drawing board for the second unit + choir.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 26, 2018 18:20:24 GMT
wat happens when u cast chosen ground and find out that it does not work on teh bastions?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 26, 2018 18:42:25 GMT
wat happens when u cast chosen ground and find out that it does not work on teh bastions? Don't be mean
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Fang
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by Fang on May 26, 2018 18:46:09 GMT
On the edit over Madelyn, her ability only cmd 7 and only affects warrior models. It might be fun repoing Ashlynn back (I'm used used to having Gibbs that I automatically accounted for the repo haha) into the bubble, but if you enemy has any warrior models with 2 reach, then Ashlynn needs to be fully within 5" of Madelyn to avoid getting stabs from them. Jacks, warbeasts, and battleengines can still get to her of course. Its kinda neat as warrior models tend to have the higher mat to have a chance of hitting Ashlynn, but in reality I think Madelyn won't add much to Ashlynn's survivability other than be a high priority and weak target that suckers ranged attacks onto your better models. Furthermore, the things that Madelyn can't block are the ones that can boost. And if they can somehow get Ashlynn with 3" to Madelyn, they can shot Ashlynn to death using sucker as its not optional (Madelyn is much easier to shoot, and can be knocked down etc where Ashlynn has chosen ground to protect her).
Though to be fair, you have so may other options at this point for your list support its not really an issue.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 26, 2018 18:50:20 GMT
wat happens when u cast chosen ground and find out that it does not work on teh bastions? Don't be mean i am bringing helpful informations to his attention and also i am curious to know
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jun 12, 2018 16:36:31 GMT
I know it is not 1 to 1, but how do you feel Gastone + Mariner x2 compares to Galleon? I'm inclined to take the Galleon instead personally, and Sweep works at least as well as thresher.
If you have 2 extra points (possibly I read that wrong), Galleon + gibbs seems better than Gastone + Mariner x2 + TGM.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 12, 2018 17:26:28 GMT
everything i have tried with crosse2 has been a hair short of competitive. teh galleon is a poopasaurus rex and ain't going to fix that but i'm trying new ARM 24 cinerators and choir wid 2 mariners and 2 robers tomorrow.
i figger u can exploiit his kit to the max with the cinerators, lifebound goes on devil derps so dey can shield guard the jacks so u can battle instead of passage and put out POW 16 boosted shots plus crosse's2 shots. it prolly wont work
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 12, 2018 17:31:05 GMT
hmmm.... u could get similar firepower wtih a galleon tho...
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 12, 2018 17:40:37 GMT
crosse2 galleon reinholdt 5 Cinerators/free CA 10 Devil Dogs Thorn Gun Mages blythe and bull min choir free eilish free gibbs ragman anastasia tinker
that might work. u hav insprired me xintas
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jun 12, 2018 20:04:39 GMT
The start of a beautiful disaster. I'll propose jank that seems not terrible in my brain and you can tell me exactly how wrong I was.
To get back to what the original list though, are you set on Ashlynn?
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