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Post by challenger on May 26, 2018 10:26:05 GMT
Classifying themes is pretty easy. Tier 3: SoTT, this theme is basically non-viable unless you go jack heavy or you use it as some sort of anti stealth, anti incorporeal boogieman. Is actually good with kraye and like 3/4 centurions or with siege1 and some good mix of ranged/melee jacks. Tier 2: HM and SD. Both of these themes are good, but not exeptional. They have seen unwarranted nerfs or feature low tier models forcing you into very specific builds (SD in this case). Opposed to SoTT and the Tier 1 GD, they work with a really huge number of casters which is a pretty good bonus. Tier 1: GD, this theme is incredibly solid. Even without caster buffs, most trenchers are self sufficient and able to engage nearly all kinds f infantry, whilebeing ableto also dish out good amounts of punishment to heavy targetsvia ragman or the trench busters. It automatically blends shooting and melee into one of the best combined arms army of the game. God Tier: GD+Haley3. This theme becomes nearly broken with H3, she provides the trenchers nearly everthing they could ask and more Yes I see a lot of H3 lists around. However she seems like a super difficult and complex caster to run, is this true? I haven't quite figured out how she is supposed to be used. Is there any standard procedures people do with her? Cast flux every turn, feat when baby haley can eat a heavy or you can assassinate. Tac sup trenchers for cloud wall
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Post by cygnarstronk on May 26, 2018 10:40:18 GMT
Classifying themes is pretty easy. Tier 3: SoTT, this theme is basically non-viable unless you go jack heavy or you use it as some sort of anti stealth, anti incorporeal boogieman. Is actually good with kraye and like 3/4 centurions or with siege1 and some good mix of ranged/melee jacks. Tier 2: HM and SD. Both of these themes are good, but not exeptional. They have seen unwarranted nerfs or feature low tier models forcing you into very specific builds (SD in this case). Opposed to SoTT and the Tier 1 GD, they work with a really huge number of casters which is a pretty good bonus. Tier 1: GD, this theme is incredibly solid. Even without caster buffs, most trenchers are self sufficient and able to engage nearly all kinds f infantry, whilebeing ableto also dish out good amounts of punishment to heavy targetsvia ragman or the trench busters. It automatically blends shooting and melee into one of the best combined arms army of the game. God Tier: GD+Haley3. This theme becomes nearly broken with H3, she provides the trenchers nearly everthing they could ask and more Yes I see a lot of H3 lists around. However she seems like a super difficult and complex caster to run, is this true? I haven't quite figured out how she is supposed to be used. Is there any standard procedures people do with her? I haven't practiced toomuch with her yet, but she doesn't seem THAT hard from my games. You basically have to just clear her some space for her first move, then move forward turn 1 and pop eachoes+Tac. supremacy the trencher infantry. From that moment, spam the +2 def spell each turn, keep main haley back and use her CMD9 to put an echo on each zone to perma-contest it. When you need it, use the echoes to kill enemy models in order to get up on the attrition war. Not that hard TBH. Also, you may want to bring thorn for some sweet assassination runs.
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Post by kanelbullen on May 26, 2018 11:24:13 GMT
I have been messing around with this list quite a bit in various incarnations and it's a lot of fun War Room Army Cygnar - siege me up, buttercup Theme: Gravediggers 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Colonel Markus 'Siege' Brisbane - WJ: +28 - Rocket Turret - Triumph - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Hammersmith - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Trencher Blockhouse - PC: 14 Captain Maxwell Finn - PC: 0 Trench Buster - PC: 0 Trencher Master Gunner - PC: 4 Ragman - PC: 4 Trencher Commandos - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2 - Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2 - Trencher Commando Officer - PC: 4 Trencher Express Team - Spotter & Gunner: 0 Trencher Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8 - Captain Jonas Murdoch - PC: 4 THEME: Gravediggers --- GENERATED : 05/25/2018 22:34:19 BUILD ID : 2066.18-05-11 Interesting, can you tell me a bit more? How do you play this list and what synergizes with what? I've never played most of the things in that list and my game sense sucks
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Post by kanelbullen on May 26, 2018 11:32:00 GMT
Yes I see a lot of H3 lists around. However she seems like a super difficult and complex caster to run, is this true? I haven't quite figured out how she is supposed to be used. Is there any standard procedures people do with her? I haven't practiced toomuch with her yet, but she doesn't seem THAT hard from my games. You basically have to just clear her some space for her first move, then move forward turn 1 and pop eachoes+Tac. supremacy the trencher infantry. From that moment, spam the +2 def spell each turn, keep main haley back and use her CMD9 to put an echo on each zone to perma-contest it. When you need it, use the echoes to kill enemy models in order to get up on the attrition war. Not that hard TBH. Also, you may want to bring thorn for some sweet assassination runs. Ok, she might be an option then. What would a good list with H3 look like?
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Post by kanelbullen on May 26, 2018 11:53:40 GMT
I made a H3 list since because I might get her also, how does this look like?
Grave Diggers 74/75
Haley3 -Ironclad -Stormclad -Thorn
Trenchers (max) -Officer & standard Trencher Long gunners Express team Express team
Trench Buster Trench Buster Doge Capt. Maxwell Finn
I chose iron and stormclads because I already own them so it mitigates the cost issue. I know people recommend getting the long gunner attachment but I just couldnt find room for it. How can this list be better?
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Post by kanelbullen on May 26, 2018 13:21:03 GMT
Theres also this variation that I came up with.
Grave Diggers 74/75
Haley3 -Ironclad -Stormclad -Thorn
Trenchers (max) -Officer & standard Express team Express team Lady ayana and master holt
Trench Buster Trench Buster Doge Capt. Maxwell Finn Ragman
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Post by jagius021 on May 26, 2018 16:23:30 GMT
I have been messing around with this list quite a bit in various incarnations and it's a lot of fun War Room Army Cygnar - siege me up, buttercup Theme: Gravediggers 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Colonel Markus 'Siege' Brisbane - WJ: +28 - Rocket Turret - Triumph - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Hammersmith - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Trencher Blockhouse - PC: 14 Captain Maxwell Finn - PC: 0 Trench Buster - PC: 0 Trencher Master Gunner - PC: 4 Ragman - PC: 4 Trencher Commandos - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2 - Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2 - Trencher Commando Officer - PC: 4 Trencher Express Team - Spotter & Gunner: 0 Trencher Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8 - Captain Jonas Murdoch - PC: 4 THEME: Gravediggers --- GENERATED : 05/25/2018 22:34:19 BUILD ID : 2066.18-05-11 Interesting, can you tell me a bit more? How do you play this list and what synergizes with what? I've never played most of the things in that list and my game sense sucks So gravediggers usually has some hard times cracking armor, and this list adds a lot to mitigate that weakness. Between siege having fury, ragman, aiyana and holt, and their minifeat, the commandos can do a tremendous amount of damage. The blockhouse is a quake machine that helps protect pieces like aiyana and holt with the trenches and also recurs your guys that die. Also, siege can make hills. People can dig in to those hills for some impressive def boosts. The express team is great for board control and grievous wounds is excellent. The master Gunner can improve the accuracy of the blockhouse or turret, or just give the express team and extra shot. I have recently acquired the trencher long gunners and have been testing them in this list as well. You can omit the buster for another express team or vice versa, take out the block house, change up the type of units and sizes, there's a lot you can do. Just change it to what's fun for you and matches your style. Just remember that whatever you are most comfortable with, you'll play better with and do better against the clock. Oh, and this list has an absolute TON of maintenance phase effects, so try not to forget any!
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Post by cygnarstronk on May 26, 2018 18:12:53 GMT
I played A&H and found them extremely lackluster. 12 pts is just too much to not land that +2 damage when needed because of effective rat7. Ayana deserved rat8, it would have been decent, but I can buy half a unit of trenchers for those 12 points or a decent melee warjack. Also you don't need to invest all those points in anti armor bonus with Siege2, the anti armor is already fixed via ragman. Better get some extra trenchers.
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Post by jagius021 on May 27, 2018 14:46:18 GMT
I mostly agree with taking out a&h, I posted my base list that I've done a lot of tweaking on. I find them pretty good with the trencher long gunners though. And I rarely stack all that anti armor, it usually is spread around but the potential for stacking is really good. I find that the all Stars for my list tends to be the commandos and having options up for them is important.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 29, 2018 18:30:50 GMT
I played A&H and found them extremely lackluster. 12 pts is just too much to not land that +2 damage when needed because of effective rat7. Ayana deserved rat8, it would have been decent, but I can buy half a unit of trenchers for those 12 points or a decent melee warjack. Also you don't need to invest all those points in anti armor bonus with Siege2, the anti armor is already fixed via ragman. Better get some extra trenchers. Aiyana and Holt are pretty critical to my Siege2 list. When you really need Kiss on a target you are likely to hit, Holt does work with his guns, and there are several matchups that you will lose without access to the magical weapon. Also, Kiss increases the shooting threat of the list to excellent levels in a way that Fury and Ragman cannot.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on May 29, 2018 21:46:40 GMT
I agree with Juris, the magic weapons for a unit is at least as valuable as the +2 damage. I use Siege1 instead, and get good use out of it. Between Triumph, Explosivo on a Cyclone, and A+H, there's enough magic guns to stop incorporeal spams.
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Post by cygnarstronk on May 29, 2018 22:09:05 GMT
I can't land ayana's kiss at rat7, not reliably. Models with either def13 or def12+concealment can be missed, and you can only try once per turn. I missed freaking banes and freaking skarre3, 12 pts wasted.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 29, 2018 22:23:17 GMT
I can't land ayana's kiss at rat7, not reliably. Models with either def13 or def12+concealment can be missed, and you can only try once per turn. I missed freaking banes and freaking skarre3, 12 pts wasted. Being unlucky doesn't make her bad; if you don't lose lose Aiyana and Holt that turn that you missed a Kiss, it's incredibly hyperbolic to say that is "12 points wasted." You still have the rest of the game to Kiss, you still have Holt's guns, etc. There's also the fact that your opponent has to account for the fact that you might Kiss his models. Your opponent respecting your Kiss threat is often more valuable than actually trying to Kiss a model.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 30, 2018 2:17:05 GMT
I can't land ayana's kiss at rat7, not reliably. Models with either def13 or def12+concealment can be missed, and you can only try once per turn. I missed freaking banes and freaking skarre3, 12 pts wasted. Being unlucky doesn't make her bad; if you don't lose lose Aiyana and Holt that turn that you missed a Kiss, it's incredibly hyperbolic to say that is "12 points wasted." You still have the rest of the game to Kiss, you still have Holt's guns, etc. There's also the fact that your opponent has to account for the fact that you might Kiss his models. Your opponent respecting your Kiss threat is often more valuable than actually trying to Kiss a model. If you rely on something, then I feel it needs to be around a 75% or higher to happen, otherwise it is inherently unreliable. Aiyannas magic 7 is very unreliable as something to rely on unless it is being used primarily for anti colossal duty, but then questions of value for cost comes in. Also, with a 10" range then the chances of losing aiyanna on that turn are extremely high if your opponent is trying to win the game.
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Post by cygnarstronk on May 30, 2018 7:38:26 GMT
Being unlucky doesn't make her bad; if you don't lose lose Aiyana and Holt that turn that you missed a Kiss, it's incredibly hyperbolic to say that is "12 points wasted." You still have the rest of the game to Kiss, you still have Holt's guns, etc. There's also the fact that your opponent has to account for the fact that you might Kiss his models. Your opponent respecting your Kiss threat is often more valuable than actually trying to Kiss a model. If you rely on something, then I feel it needs to be around a 75% or higher to happen, otherwise it is inherently unreliable. Aiyannas magic 7 is very unreliable as something to rely on unless it is being used primarily for anti colossal duty, but then questions of value for cost comes in. Also, with a 10" range then the chances of losing aiyanna on that turn are extremely high if your opponent is trying to win the game. Thank you, exactly what I think. After a kiss attempt, ayana is very probably dead. But what troubles me the most is that usually, if I plan on kissing a model, well then it's part of my core strategy. If I miss then the whole strategy is ruined. I was playing against skarre3, had her in range of a lot of my guns but needed the kiss to really bring her down. I activate ayana, miss DEF12, assassination botched. Duh, that's 12 wasted points for sure.
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