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Post by kanelbullen on May 25, 2018 13:59:32 GMT
I'm a Trollbloods player and since I own Cygnar models I would like to pick them up as a second faction.
I love the trenchers looks, but the storm knights aren't bad looking either (I own a full unit of both of them). But I'm just wondering what theme lists should I go for. As I love the trenchers the grave diggers appeals the most to me, but I'm worried it might be very difficult to run due to shooting being pretty crap in warmachine (or I just suck playing shooty lists). Also I have got the impression the storm knight cavalry models are very popular unit however I don't have the monetary capacity to purchase them (damn cav models are expensive). I also play almost exclusively against legion, circle and menoth.
So, what theme lists are "viable" as in what theme lists do not need the risk calculation of an asian math prodigy on adderal and the deduction skills of sherlock holmes to run efficiently. I'm not a total noob but I admit I am kinda crappy at the game.
I would really appreciate some suggestions for warcasters too, as I know little about them (I own the new battlebox caster but she seems kinda meh and I also painted her suuuper crappy so I dislike fielding her.)
Thanks in advance  |
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Post by jagius021 on May 25, 2018 14:10:33 GMT
Both of those themes are good, but my personal bias with storm division is to run the cavalry as they are pretty awesome. Heavy metal is also really good, and money wise probably the easiest to get into as it's a lot of jacks and you can find large lots of jacks on eBay pretty easily. Gravediggers is my favorite theme at the moment, but it can take some finesse to get right. Find a caster whose style you like and you can choose theme according to that, or rather a style of play you like. Our only theme that's pretty meh is sons of tempest but even that has redeeming qualities in our solos.
Also, cygnar loves Mercs. We have a Ranking Officer attachment that turns a merc unit into a cygnar unit. Doing that to aiyana and holt increases the damage output of our guys. Ragman also adds damage. Hutchuck and ragman help too
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Post by kanelbullen on May 25, 2018 15:27:32 GMT
Both of those themes are good, but my personal bias with storm division is to run the cavalry as they are pretty awesome. Heavy metal is also really good, and money wise probably the easiest to get into as it's a lot of jacks and you can find large lots of jacks on eBay pretty easily. Gravediggers is my favorite theme at the moment, but it can take some finesse to get right. Find a caster whose style you like and you can choose theme according to that, or rather a style of play you like. Our only theme that's pretty meh is sons of tempest but even that has redeeming qualities in our solos. Also, cygnar loves Mercs. We have a Ranking Officer attachment that turns a merc unit into a cygnar unit. Doing that to aiyana and holt increases the damage output of our guys. Ragman also adds damage. Hutchuck and ragman help too What list do you use with Gravedigger? |
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173 
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Post by xadmar on May 25, 2018 15:35:03 GMT
I normally see Express teams, A unit of Commandos, Finn as a free model, and a unit of Infantry. Sometimes Trencher Long Gunners and sometimes a block house. Siege 2 and Haley 3 seem to be the most popular. So really I would say what caster looks interesting to you then you can build out a list based on their strengths.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 25, 2018 15:38:46 GMT
Jake Wilstrop won the Welsh Masters (160 players), playing every single game with Haley 3 Gravediggers, do what you will with that info...
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Post by kanelbullen on May 25, 2018 15:41:46 GMT
Follow up question: How would you say gravediggers is with caine2? He seems super cool and I chuckle internally when I imagine his assasination runs. I also don't have an assasination list for trolls so this would be an interesting route...
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Post by kanelbullen on May 25, 2018 16:13:24 GMT
I made a list for Caine2, Is it completely garbage?
Gravediggers 74/75
Caine2
-Reinholdt
-Grenadier
-Hunter
-centurion
Trenchers (max)
-Grenadier
-Grenadier
-grenadier
-Officer & standard
Trencher express team
Trench buster
Trench buster
Captain Maxwel Finn
Commander Anson Hitch
Major Harrison Gibbs
I play mostly against Circle and Legion, occasionally Menoth when my friend is in town.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 25, 2018 16:52:27 GMT
I made a list for Caine2, Is it completely garbage? Gravediggers 74/75 Caine2 -Reinholdt -Grenadier -Hunter -centurion Trenchers (max) -Grenadier -Grenadier -grenadier -Officer & standard Trencher express team Trench buster Trench buster Captain Maxwel Finn Commander Anson Hitch Major Harrison Gibbs I play mostly against Circle and Legion, occasionally Menoth when my friend is in town. To start off, the list you posted only seems to be 69 points (before getting your free solos), so I'm not sure what you did wrong. Substantively, drop Hitch. You don't have a good target for his buffs, there is skornergy between Feign Death and Heightened Reflexes, and you don't have enough Trenchers in the list to need Tactician. Also drop the Trencher Infantry Grenadier attachments; you don't need the extra anti-infantry guns with Caine2. I would drop Reinholdt and bring Ragman instead; you'll want the hitting power in melee. You currently don't have a compelling reason to bring Gibbs (he does literally nothing besides have a minifeat to heal models in your current list), so I would drop him. You can keep him for repo 3" on Ragman if you bring Ragman, but it doesn't seem worth it with Caine2. I would definitely bring a second Express Team. They are really good. I would also drop the Hunter from the battlegroup, and I would advise you to bring the Patrol Dog (best 2 points you can spend). Those changes leave you with 38 more points to spend on Trencher models. Blockhouse is actually a legit choice with Caine2 (FFE on that gun is fantastic). Master Gunners are great if you have Express Teams (and/or a blockhouse). Commandos are also a solid unit, although I'd lean more towards having additional Trencher Infantry or Trencher Long Gunner units with Caine2. |
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on May 25, 2018 17:07:49 GMT
Jake Wilstrop won the Welsh Masters (160 players), playing every single game with Haley 3 Gravediggers, do what you will with that info... Gravediggers is probably the single strongest theme in the game. You're getting 16 points of free, very powerful models, nearly army wide Rise on an already Tough army, and +1 to go first in an army that LOVES to go first: good SPD, advance deploy, lots of guns, lots of anti-shooting... Haley3 in gravediggers is a nightmare to play against and is less preferable than sticking one's bepper into a combine harvester. Def skew combined with blast immunity is tough on its own, but then you add in the multiple assassination vectors, the damage skewing, the grievous wounds, the cloud walls, and the infinitely recurring incorporeal to contest zones (with power field)! |
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Post by kanelbullen on May 25, 2018 17:59:49 GMT
I made a list for Caine2, Is it completely garbage? Gravediggers 74/75 Caine2 -Reinholdt -Grenadier -Hunter -centurion Trenchers (max) -Grenadier -Grenadier -grenadier -Officer & standard Trencher express team Trench buster Trench buster Captain Maxwel Finn Commander Anson Hitch Major Harrison Gibbs I play mostly against Circle and Legion, occasionally Menoth when my friend is in town. To start off, the list you posted only seems to be 69 points (before getting your free solos), so I'm not sure what you did wrong. Substantively, drop Hitch. You don't have a good target for his buffs, there is skornergy between Feign Death and Heightened Reflexes, and you don't have enough Trenchers in the list to need Tactician. Also drop the Trencher Infantry Grenadier attachments; you don't need the extra anti-infantry guns with Caine2. I would drop Reinholdt and bring Ragman instead; you'll want the hitting power in melee. You currently don't have a compelling reason to bring Gibbs (he does literally nothing besides have a minifeat to heal models in your current list), so I would drop him. You can keep him for repo 3" on Ragman if you bring Ragman, but it doesn't seem worth it with Caine2. I would definitely bring a second Express Team. They are really good. I would also drop the Hunter from the battlegroup, and I would advise you to bring the Patrol Dog (best 2 points you can spend). Those changes leave you with 38 more points to spend on Trencher models. Blockhouse is actually a legit choice with Caine2 (FFE on that gun is fantastic). Master Gunners are great if you have Express Teams (and/or a blockhouse). Commandos are also a solid unit, although I'd lean more towards having additional Trencher Infantry or Trencher Long Gunner units with Caine2. Ok, how about this? Gravediggers 68/75 Caine2 -Grenadier -centurion Trenchers (max) -Officer & standard Trencher express team Trencher express team Rangers Long gunners (max) Trench buster Trench buster Captain Maxwell Finn Doge Ragman Trencher master gunner trench busters + Finn as free. The blockhouse seems appealing but It costs too much right now (I could maybe craft one from carboard or something though)
EDIT: Forgot to ask what to do with the remaining points? this leaves me with 7 points still.
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on May 25, 2018 18:17:24 GMT
With Trencher Long Gunners you really want the CA. It gives them too much of a benefit IMHO.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 25, 2018 20:46:43 GMT
To start off, the list you posted only seems to be 69 points (before getting your free solos), so I'm not sure what you did wrong. Substantively, drop Hitch. You don't have a good target for his buffs, there is skornergy between Feign Death and Heightened Reflexes, and you don't have enough Trenchers in the list to need Tactician. Also drop the Trencher Infantry Grenadier attachments; you don't need the extra anti-infantry guns with Caine2. I would drop Reinholdt and bring Ragman instead; you'll want the hitting power in melee. You currently don't have a compelling reason to bring Gibbs (he does literally nothing besides have a minifeat to heal models in your current list), so I would drop him. You can keep him for repo 3" on Ragman if you bring Ragman, but it doesn't seem worth it with Caine2. I would definitely bring a second Express Team. They are really good. I would also drop the Hunter from the battlegroup, and I would advise you to bring the Patrol Dog (best 2 points you can spend). Those changes leave you with 38 more points to spend on Trencher models. Blockhouse is actually a legit choice with Caine2 (FFE on that gun is fantastic). Master Gunners are great if you have Express Teams (and/or a blockhouse). Commandos are also a solid unit, although I'd lean more towards having additional Trencher Infantry or Trencher Long Gunner units with Caine2. Ok, how about this? Gravediggers 68/75 Caine2 -Grenadier -centurion Trenchers (max) -Officer & standard Trencher express team Trencher express team Rangers Long gunners (max) Trench buster Trench buster Captain Maxwell Finn Doge Ragman Trencher master gunner trench busters + Finn as free. The blockhouse seems appealing but It costs too much right now (I could maybe craft one from carboard or something though)
EDIT: Forgot to ask what to do with the remaining points? this leaves me with 7 points still.
Take the Long Gunner Command Attachment as well; don't play them without him. That will take you to 71 points. Because you have Long Gunners in the list now (and a lot more Trenchers), I would advise you to add Anson Hitch. Edit: I did the above math incorrectly. Take the Long Gunner CA. You don't have the leftover points for Hitch, but you do have 2 points remaining (3 total, but one of which is a warjack point, so you really only have 2 points remaining). Personally, I would turn the Grenadier into Ace or an Ironclad. Grenadiers are good, but you have enough shooting and Ace or an Ironclad bring you something different. |
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Post by cygnarstronk on May 25, 2018 20:51:29 GMT
Classifying themes is pretty easy.
Tier 3: SoTT, this theme is basically non-viable unless you go jack heavy or you use it as some sort of anti stealth, anti incorporeal boogieman. Is actually good with kraye and like 3/4 centurions or with siege1 and some good mix of ranged/melee jacks.
Tier 2: HM and SD. Both of these themes are good, but not exeptional. They have seen unwarranted nerfs or feature low tier models forcing you into very specific builds (SD in this case). Opposed to SoTT and the Tier 1 GD, they work with a really huge number of casters which is a pretty good bonus.
Tier 1: GD, this theme is incredibly solid. Even without caster buffs, most trenchers are self sufficient and able to engage nearly all kinds f infantry, whilebeing ableto also dish out good amounts of punishment to heavy targetsvia ragman or the trench busters. It automatically blends shooting and melee into one of the best combined arms army of the game.
God Tier: GD+Haley3. This theme becomes nearly broken with H3, she provides the trenchers nearly everthing they could ask and more
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Post by jagius021 on May 26, 2018 2:35:40 GMT
I have been messing around with this list quite a bit in various incarnations and it's a lot of fun
War Room Army
Cygnar - siege me up, buttercup
Theme: Gravediggers
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Colonel Markus 'Siege' Brisbane - WJ: +28
- Rocket Turret
- Triumph - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Hammersmith - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
Trencher Blockhouse - PC: 14
Captain Maxwell Finn - PC: 0
Trench Buster - PC: 0
Trencher Master Gunner - PC: 4
Ragman - PC: 4
Trencher Commandos - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2
- Trencher Commando Scattergunner - PC: 2
- Trencher Commando Officer - PC: 4
Trencher Express Team - Spotter & Gunner: 0
Trencher Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8
- Captain Jonas Murdoch - PC: 4
THEME: Gravediggers
---
GENERATED : 05/25/2018 22:34:19
BUILD ID : 2066.18-05-11
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Post by kanelbullen on May 26, 2018 10:19:37 GMT
Classifying themes is pretty easy. Tier 3: SoTT, this theme is basically non-viable unless you go jack heavy or you use it as some sort of anti stealth, anti incorporeal boogieman. Is actually good with kraye and like 3/4 centurions or with siege1 and some good mix of ranged/melee jacks. Tier 2: HM and SD. Both of these themes are good, but not exeptional. They have seen unwarranted nerfs or feature low tier models forcing you into very specific builds (SD in this case). Opposed to SoTT and the Tier 1 GD, they work with a really huge number of casters which is a pretty good bonus. Tier 1: GD, this theme is incredibly solid. Even without caster buffs, most trenchers are self sufficient and able to engage nearly all kinds f infantry, whilebeing ableto also dish out good amounts of punishment to heavy targetsvia ragman or the trench busters. It automatically blends shooting and melee into one of the best combined arms army of the game. God Tier: GD+Haley3. This theme becomes nearly broken with H3, she provides the trenchers nearly everthing they could ask and more Yes I see a lot of H3 lists around. However she seems like a super difficult and complex caster to run, is this true? I haven't quite figured out how she is supposed to be used. Is there any standard procedures people do with her? |
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