Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 24, 2018 16:00:46 GMT
With how the Harbinger Thread has been going, I decided we needed a new forum (*shifty eyes*) to discuss Tristan2. He has some interesting ideas going for him, but they seem to not really focus him into a specific play style. He screams he wants to be a premier ranged caster, but doesn't have the spell list to really support it. An idea I had to support this idea is having Malekus give Open Fire to Tristan and Tristan give Manifest Destiny to Malekus. Seems like a simple solution, but the lack of threat range increase with either caster makes it rough. Hashmal had a pretty good take on where he sits, here is a link to what he had to say: lormahordes.freeforums.net/post/99946Just for fun, here's a list I was thinking could be compelling/interesting to try out: | Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] The Creator's Might
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
(Durant 2) Sovereign Tristan Durant [+28] |
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[/b] [*]Dervish [7][*]Indictor [14][*]Judicator [35][*]Revenger [10][*]Hierophant [0(3)][/ul]Kell Bailoch [5]Scrutator Potentate Severius [0(6)][/b] [/ul]The Covenant of Menoth [0(4)]Choir of Menoth ( min) [4]Choir of Menoth (min) [4]Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table] This list does use the CID entries of the appropriate models, like the Judicator and the Indictor.
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Post by gargs454 on May 24, 2018 16:46:15 GMT
Interesting list, but I'm thinking you might run into scenario issues with it. I'm assuming Rhoven and Co are there for the shield guards? A thought that occurred to me was to possibly replace them with a Devout (granted fewer shield guards, but it helps to maximize the feat turn). I do think Hashmal has a good description of Tristan's weird place at the moment though. I kind of feel like they gave T2 the heal ability as a means of "fixing" Bastions without realizing that the problem with Bastions is that anything that really tries to kill them, does so, thereby preventing the heal. On top of that it is true that as a slower faction, it is harder for us to make great use out of both MD and the feat. We likely lose at least one jack before the feat turn, probably more, and then while the feat is still interesting, T2 just doesn't quite pack enough punch, even with the feat, to really clear the area he needs to.
I do really want to like T2 because I think he's got some pretty neat tools, the problem is, his tools are for the wrong project. Its sort of like having a really good framing nailer when you want to paint a fence. Nothing wrong with a nice framing nailer, but its not going to help you paint a fence.
That said, I'm wondering how T2 might do in EI, especially with Cinnies. I feel like Cinnies might actually be able to survive on a few boxes now with shield wall, etc., and I could see his heal being particularly annoying for the opponent. If the VoJ were better overall it could get really interesting. The question of course becomes what jacks to take with him then because if you are running EI, you are likely not going to make full use of the feat turn -- though that might not be fatal to the concept. I could see perhaps a line of dervishes or repenters running behind the tarpits helping to clean things out.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 24, 2018 17:41:02 GMT
With your ideas on putting him into EI, I have one with the VoJ that looks interesting and one that I would love to run with Durst, but Tristan might be a compelling option too. conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0EgA1q1q9x9x3BlZlSlZlS2jfV2jfVi8Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Exemplar Interdiction !!! Your army contains CID entries. (Durant 2) Sovereign Tristan Durant [+28] - Dervish [7] - Dervish [7] - Repenter [8] - Repenter [8] Wrack [1] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(6)] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(6)] Knights Exemplar [9] - Knights Exemplar Officer [5] Knights Exemplar [9] - Knights Exemplar Officer [5] Vessel of Judgment [18] This first one is the one with a VoJ. I had actually considered a Shrine instead of the second unit of Knights. conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0EgAl_l_l-l-k9m0lXlXlZlSlZlSProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Exemplar Interdiction !!! Your army contains CID entries. (Durant 2) Sovereign Tristan Durant [+28] - Indictor [14] - Indictor [14] Exemplar Bastion Seneschal [0(6)] Exemplar Bastion Seneschal [0(6)] Exemplar Warder Elias Gade [5] High Exemplar Gravus [8] Exemplar Bastions (max) [15] Exemplar Bastions (max) [15] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(6)] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [6] This one I built for Durst initially and Tristan just by chance has the same jack points and brings some interesting ideas to this list. I'm not sold on the idea, but it's interesting. I've been using the word 'interesting' a lot today... The other version of this list that runs Durst plays around with the idea of 4 Dervish instead of the 2 Indictors, or 1 Indictor and 2 Dervish. I just like the idea of all these medium bases walking across the field at my opponent and what it would look like on the table. EDIT: This second list could have the new caster attachment Warder instead of Gade, but his ranged presence I think is needed.
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Post by gargs454 on May 24, 2018 18:11:11 GMT
Personally, I like the first list better for Tristan. I think you definitely want the second unit of Knights, though now that I think about it, swapping the VoJ for the Church could be interesting as even if they manage to kill some dudes, you just bring them back and have Tristan heal them. I think the problem with that though will be that I think we'll find that the church is pretty fragile and impossible to protect. The VoJ is vulnerable too of course, but a bit easier to protect.
I think the second list is just going to be too lacking in ranged output, and while I don't think you need to maximize Tristan's feat, I think you are giving up a lot by bringing just two jacks with him. The list itself has some potential, just not with Tristan unfortunately.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 24, 2018 18:17:29 GMT
Personally, I like the first list better for Tristan. I think you definitely want the second unit of Knights, though now that I think about it, swapping the VoJ for the Church could be interesting as even if they manage to kill some dudes, you just bring them back and have Tristan heal them. I think the problem with that though will be that I think we'll find that the church is pretty fragile and impossible to protect. The VoJ is vulnerable too of course, but a bit easier to protect. I think the second list is just going to be too lacking in ranged output, and while I don't think you need to maximize Tristan's feat, I think you are giving up a lot by bringing just two jacks with him. The list itself has some potential, just not with Tristan unfortunately. The Shrine would also open up a few points, maybe even getting us another free thing. I just always thought the extra healing from the VoJ would just be a way to demoralize your opponent even more with how hard it already would be to kill the Cinerators. The second list was originally built for Durst to run, so I can see how you don't like it with Tristan.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 24, 2018 19:10:03 GMT
Swapping out the VoJ for the Shrine makes for some interesting options/additions. I felt that Anastasia would be nice for the chance to go first and her chance to snipe out key solos/support models. conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0EgA1q1q9x9x7jlRlZlSlZlS2jfV2jfVlQProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Exemplar Interdiction !!! Your army contains CID entries. (Durant 2) Sovereign Tristan Durant [+28] - Dervish [7] - Dervish [7] - Repenter [8] - Repenter [8] Anastasia di Bray [3] Hand of Silence [7] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(6)] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(6)] Knights Exemplar [9] - Knights Exemplar Officer [0(5)] Knights Exemplar [9] - Knights Exemplar Officer [5] Shrine of the Lawgiver [14] For some reason Hand of Silence seemed like a good addition to help with soul direction/souls out of range. Plus another boostable spray seemed good.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on May 24, 2018 21:43:19 GMT
Shoot, I like Tristan as he is. Yeah, he isn't getting the alpha, but running Templars and Indictors, you're unlikely to lose too much to their alpha, then you can distribute focus, pop feat, heal and manifest destiny, (maybe in a different order if some cortexes went out, but that's ok. Probably don't need 3 focus on ALL jacks) then wreck the world.
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Post by dicebedamned on May 25, 2018 12:48:58 GMT
Shoot, I like Tristan as he is. Yeah, he isn't getting the alpha, but running Templars and Indictors, you're unlikely to lose too much to their alpha, then you can distribute focus, pop feat, heal and manifest destiny, (maybe in a different order if some cortexes went out, but that's ok. Probably don't need 3 focus on ALL jacks) then wreck the world. This. I run tristan2 in my main pair (with Vindi Ei) and have had good success with him by just presenting a wall of shield jacks with a VoJ in the middle. My list: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0dgAdYdY9x24243q7k3C3t3t3z3z2_2_i8Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Creator's Might (Durant 2) Sovereign Tristan Durant [+28] - Indictor [15] - Indictor [15] - Repenter [8] - Templar [15] - Templar [15] - Hierophant [0(3)] Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist [4] The Covenant of Menoth [0(4)] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Vassal of Menoth [3] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Vessel of Judgment [18] If CID changes stick, then I drop Gorman and replace with Kell Bailoch. The list works by running up, sticking enliven onto shield heavies, taking the alpha, healing, then pop feat, Manifest Destiny and counter alpha. After that it just becomes a grind. I like to deploy this list as T I VoJ I T with everything else behind either a jack or the VoJ. Late game, single surviving choir boys give up singing and go score/contest zones. My opponents get kinda frustrated at having to waste good resources late game removing choir boys who are not even buffiing jacks anymore lol.
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Post by correlion on May 31, 2018 7:28:09 GMT
Nice! How about CID modification of your list? conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0dgAl_l_2424lM9x3C3t3t3z2_2_3ji8Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Creator's Might !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Durant 2] Sovereign Tristan Durant [+28] - Indictor [14] - Indictor [14] - Templar [15] - Templar [15] Scrutator Potentate Severius [0(6)] - Repenter [8] The Covenant of Menoth [0(4)] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9] Vessel of Judgment [18]
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 31, 2018 10:14:24 GMT
Judicator seems too good to pass up with Tristan, Inviolable Resolve stacks nicely, and pseudo double Signs and Portents on it's melee attacks makes it crazy accurate.
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Post by correlion on May 31, 2018 12:04:44 GMT
and true sight will benefit him greatly
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Post by dicebedamned on May 31, 2018 12:07:52 GMT
After playing my list above a few more times last night, it is clear to me that it suffers immensly from lack of infantry to play scenario with - albeit all CM lists have that issue unless you take idrians.
I will probably retire Tristan2 untill Exemplar CID becomes offical and then see where he stands with Bastions/Cinnies.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 31, 2018 15:28:29 GMT
Judicator seems too good to pass up with Tristan, Inviolable Resolve stacks nicely, and pseudo double Signs and Portents on it's melee attacks makes it crazy accurate. Or the more obvious version with The High Reclaimer. Hand of Fate stacks really nicely with his Reliquary. I still need to get in some reps with him. Oh, good question for someone that hasn't played him yet: When you cast his heal spell, do you roll once or do you roll for each model individually? Finally: Why do I see such a lack of arc nodes with him? I would think that having at least one would be important for him to stay safe and still cast his buff spells. Even the lists I've been creating seem to be lacking one.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 31, 2018 15:42:00 GMT
Judicator seems too good to pass up with Tristan, Inviolable Resolve stacks nicely, and pseudo double Signs and Portents on it's melee attacks makes it crazy accurate. Or the more obvious version with The High Reclaimer. Hand of Fate stacks really nicely with his Reliquary. I still need to get in some reps with him. Oh, good question for someone that hasn't played him yet: When you cast his heal spell, do you roll once or do you roll for each model individually? Finally: Why do I see such a lack of arc nodes with him? I would think that having at least one would be important for him to stay safe and still cast his buff spells. Even the lists I've been creating seem to be lacking one. I believe you roll d3 for each model, like you do for Psycho Surgery (it can be a real clock burner!)
He only has one buff spell (Inviolable Resolve), which is easy enough to swap around if you hang one guy from a unit a bit further back. If I played him I would take an arc node for Chasten, can't speak as to why other people might not, maybe warjacks getting Blessed weapons in EI is enough, but that still does not prevent admonition or the dodge from Bullet dodger for example
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 31, 2018 16:12:46 GMT
Or the more obvious version with The High Reclaimer. Hand of Fate stacks really nicely with his Reliquary. I still need to get in some reps with him. Oh, good question for someone that hasn't played him yet: When you cast his heal spell, do you roll once or do you roll for each model individually? Finally: Why do I see such a lack of arc nodes with him? I would think that having at least one would be important for him to stay safe and still cast his buff spells. Even the lists I've been creating seem to be lacking one. I believe you roll d3 for each model, like you do for Psycho Surgery (it can be a real clock burner!)
He only has one buff spell (Inviolable Resolve), which is easy enough to swap around if you hang one guy from a unit a bit further back. If I played him I would take an arc node for Chasten, can't speak as to why other people might not, maybe warjacks getting Blessed weapons in EI is enough, but that still does not prevent admonition or the dodge from Bullet dodger for example
I imagine that Psycho Surgery and his spell both function the same way then. Just a slight adjustment on who they affect. On the arc node thing, he also had a decent nuke that is an AOE too. It just seems that the flexibility of having that option seems relevant. And with the way the book went in the fluff with Sevvy gifting Blessing to him, maybe we will be getting a Blessing2 that will be perfect for Tristan?
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