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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 9, 2018 11:56:18 GMT
I'm going to be trying these lists tonight: Minion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Blindwater Congregation [Barnabas 2] Barnabas, Lord of Blood [+23] - Dracodile [36] - Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Gatorman Husk [3] Gatorman Husk [3] Gatorman Husk [3] Longchops [0(5)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers [10] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] Minion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Blindwater Congregation [Barnabas 2] Barnabas, Lord of Blood [+23] - Bull Snapper [0(5)] - Dracodile [36] - Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Bone Shrine [2] Gatorman Husk [3] Longchops [5] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers [10] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] It's going to be interesting to see if the Dracodile is enough as a Battlegroup or if I will need the bull snapper or perhaps the boneswarm. I'd be interested in seeing the reports afterwards. I played on game with the drac and liked it with B2 but you may need more beasts if you don't want to have to fill the drac each turn. With just the bokor and shamblers (and B2) in your list that need corpses, do you think you'll need the second spirit cauldron?
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Aug 9, 2018 20:40:48 GMT
Alright!
Game 1 VS Vlad2 AC Game is mine. I'm in a 2-0 lead at top of 3 and he barely has any way of evening the score thanks to the husks contesting along with shamblers jamming the MoW units. At the beginning of the game I asked if he had anything that got me stationary and he said no, but then he charged me and got a crit and said "oh, now you're stationary.." which felt like a downer. But BLoB stood steadfast and toughed twice before my opponents last shot killed him (because he was stationary...). A bit of a downer but the match felt really good in general.
Thoughts: I need a bull snapper as a transfer target and as a warbeast so the dracodile isn't locked down in a zone (this was spread the net) so I'm replacing Longchops with a free bull snapper.
Game 2 vs Anamag PT Bull snapper is in! I start off by rolling boxcars with the Dracodile spray on the Hellmouth on the right side of the board and it dies, which is brilliant. I then proceed putting a DEF15 BLoB by a house, having blinded all the warmongers that could get to him. Sadly, he moves them out of the way, feats with Anamag, hits BLoB with a hex blast so I lose Spiny Growth and then BLoB takes a Blightbringer to the face and dies. Apparently PT can swing MAT a whole bunch. Good learning point. I also had an awesome bull snapper sitting on 2 Fury in the back, making clear I can't transfer anywhere.
Lesson learned. BLoB in WWFF with his starcrossed fortress is not the same as this BLoB. However, I prefer this one. Overall the lists did really well and I was surprised to see it. Both Cauldrons are a must since they make the shamblers that much better and often fill BLoB up turn 1. DEF14 Gators are a thing and can take more of a beating than one thinks. The Husks are amazing and give the list so much scenario pressure with the jamming of gators and shamblers and contesting of the husks. I will continue to play this list (second version, Longchops not having prowl throws him out of the list).
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 10, 2018 13:28:06 GMT
Alright! Game 1 VS Vlad2 AC Game is mine. I'm in a 2-0 lead at top of 3 and he barely has any way of evening the score thanks to the husks contesting along with shamblers jamming the MoW units. At the beginning of the game I asked if he had anything that got me stationary and he said no, but then he charged me and got a crit and said "oh, now you're stationary.." which felt like a downer. But BLoB stood steadfast and toughed twice before my opponents last shot killed him (because he was stationary...). A bit of a downer but the match felt really good in general. Thoughts: I need a bull snapper as a transfer target and as a warbeast so the dracodile isn't locked down in a zone (this was spread the net) so I'm replacing Longchops with a free bull snapper. Yeah, the crit stationary on the demo corp can sneak up on ya. I play predominately hordes and I'm finding it harder and harder to run single beast lists for pretty much the exact same reason you mentioned. Alright! Game 2 vs Anamag PT Bull snapper is in! I start off by rolling boxcars with the Dracodile spray on the Hellmouth on the right side of the board and it dies, which is brilliant. I then proceed putting a DEF15 BLoB by a house, having blinded all the warmongers that could get to him. Sadly, he moves them out of the way, feats with Anamag, hits BLoB with a hex blast so I lose Spiny Growth and then BLoB takes a Blightbringer to the face and dies. Apparently PT can swing MAT a whole bunch. Good learning point. I also had an awesome bull snapper sitting on 2 Fury in the back, making clear I can't transfer anywhere. Lesson learned. BLoB in WWFF with his starcrossed fortress is not the same as this BLoB. However, I prefer this one. Overall the lists did really well and I was surprised to see it. Both Cauldrons are a must since they make the shamblers that much better and often fill BLoB up turn 1. DEF14 Gators are a thing and can take more of a beating than one thinks. The Husks are amazing and give the list so much scenario pressure with the jamming of gators and shamblers and contesting of the husks. I will continue to play this list (second version, Longchops not having prowl throws him out of the list). WE&SJ are auto-includes in pretty much every B2 lists I make, no matter the theme. The combination of starcrossed and EoBN is just too powerful to not have for as far forward as B2 seems to want to play. I'm a fan of the snapper and arm 20 is better than arm 18, but I've found myself putting boneswarms into more and more lists because their uses are fair greater than the snapper's. They hit harder, survive way more punishment than a light should (def 15 vs living/shooting and arm 18), and can benefit from death ride from the croc witch-docs making them out threat the snappers. Anamag would have needed an 8 (10 if she was in EoBN range, unless the hexblast was channeled) instead of 6 to hit you with the hexblast with swarm, and the blightbringer would have needed 9s (before all the mat buffs are applied). I may have to proxy double cauldrons, I have one now in my list with two swarms, B2 and the bokor and it is barely able to keep everything filled, with the bokor being the last one to get filled.
Legion is my second faction (well technically first faction, but I've been playing minions more lately): Anamag can do a +6 mat swing in one turn. Blightbringer aura, gorag's gaze, and carnage. Since B2 does a hard def skew, she is about the perfect counter to him.
P.S I love the dracodile model and I have one fully painted and waiting patiently to find a permanent home in a list.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Aug 10, 2018 16:22:22 GMT
I'm really having trouble justifying the points for WrongEye, it basically means I have to remove a unit of Posse or the Dracodile, neither of would make the list perform better IMO. Also, when facing people who are used to facing lesser warlocks, they just kill WrongEye. I mean, if star crossed is up you have 1 transfer, and then you die to shooting, if you submerge you also die to shooting as something is standing in front of you and bam, sprayed down.
I'm bringing all my gators (and pigs) to a tournament next weekend though and will most likely be playing the Jaga/BLoB pairing all through the tournament so will try different variations in the list but currently I'm quite happy with it. May have to drop Jaga into legion though, but that's shouldn't be a problem really.
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sean
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 7
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Post by sean on Aug 11, 2018 20:27:57 GMT
I feel like dropping Wrongeye is a mistake? Starcrossed is so essential to Barney’s def skew, when I’ve played him at least.
What sprays are killing your Wrongeye? Could always camp 1 just in case rather than Submerge, and bring Valkyries for shield guard?
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Aug 11, 2018 21:58:00 GMT
I feel like dropping Wrongeye is a mistake? Starcrossed is so essential to Barney’s def skew, when I’ve played him at least. What sprays are killing your Wrongeye? Could always camp 1 just in case rather than Submerge, and bring Valkyries for shield guard? I will try removing a Posse for WrongEye tomorrow and play a game and see how I like it. It's really expensive to do as I lose a free solo and several other solos I payed for. So I'll have to see.
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 13, 2018 13:10:39 GMT
I feel like dropping Wrongeye is a mistake? Starcrossed is so essential to Barney’s def skew, when I’ve played him at least. What sprays are killing your Wrongeye? Could always camp 1 just in case rather than Submerge, and bring Valkyries for shield guard? I will try removing a Posse for WrongEye tomorrow and play a game and see how I like it. It's really expensive to do as I lose a free solo and several other solos I payed for. So I'll have to see. I'm still not convinced that the dracodile is the best choice for B2, based on mostly speculation since I've only had 1 game with the two of them together so far. It is just hard to drop 36 points into a single model and to lose so much support that B2 seems to need.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Aug 14, 2018 14:11:24 GMT
It may be that way, wouldn't surprise me at all as I feel that way about every single colossal/gargantuan in the game. But I've painted my dracodile really well and I love the model so I'm determined to give it a fair try. 'm heading to a large tournament this weekend and bringing the BLoB list above paired with JagaJaga (double Blindwater!) so I'll have some batreps for that. After that I'll see what needs to be done
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 29, 2018 12:19:03 GMT
Traveled to a nearby game store and got a game in Monday using B2. It was B2 vs pMadrak Band of Heroes using the SR2018 Spread the net scenario.
The lists: BloB -Wrastler -Blindwalker -BoneSwarm -SoulSlave Full posse x2 Witch Doc Bone shrine Cauldron and Boil master WE&SJ Bokor and Shamblers
pMadrak -Bomber -Mauler -chronicler Full fennblades +UA Full Champs x2 one with UA
Champ hero Fell Call hero max stone + UA
He won the roll and chose to go first, I chose the side a the bottom of the pictures.
Round 1: Both sides run towards each other. pMadrak puts up even ground. All the GMP run forward with dirge mists up. Bone swarm gets some corpses. Blindwalker tramples forward and hits the fennblades with Rebuke through the cloud. Everything else jockies for position.
Round 2: He pushes up the fennblades to jam my front line, eveything else moves up for the second wave. pMadrak feats and puts up even ground. He runs a feralgiest to my right zone and since I deployed all my arc nodes on the left side, I can't kill it. Gators proceed to miss almost every attack + reroll due to needing 8's and only being able to roll 6's. And even when I do break armor he makes almost every tough roll. I jam his lines as much as I can since I can't charge and set up for my next turn. He scores 2, I score 1. 1-2
Round 3:
Trolls: Fennblades vengeance but miss a lot due to EoBN and star-crossed. He un-jams the right side champs by killing the single GMP i ran in to engage the group. pMadrak moves up and hits the cauldron for 7, ricochets into the boil master who toughs. He gains 2 cps (his zone+ flag), I gain none. 1-4.
Gators: I'm pretty screwed on scenario but I see a small opening for an asassination run as long as I can hit and kill 2-3 fennblades and they don't tough. GMP go and kill 1 of the 2 that I need dead, swarm kills another one and toughs the optional one in the way. Cauldron shifts over and hits Madrak with spectral lash and gets the full drag distance. This puts him in charge range of B2 who can only get to him with the axe (if the 3rd fennblade would have died I could have had both attacks in range.). Buy and boosts and burn the feat to finally kill Madrak.
Only took a single picture of the end.
Victory to Gators!
Thoughts: Well B2 doesn't apparently like getting dropped into defense spam lists. With the GMP losing a point of mat and pMadrak's even ground spell I think I only killed 4 enemy models the whole game. I really messed up my deployment and it cost me by not being able to score my right zone. The witch doc didn't get all that much to do this game and will probably be swapped out for kwaak again. At least with 2 sprays with continuous corrosion I can at least try to un-jam the GMP. I've been playing around with this list a lot and am trying to work in a sacral vault, but can't quite find the points. I was securely jammed out of scenario and it was sheer luck that I was able to pull out the assassination.
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 29, 2018 13:41:24 GMT
In my handful of games with B2, the bokor and shamblers have really only contributed to feeding his feat. But they also bring up issues with the cauldron as to who to prioritize getting corpses. So far I've be going in this order: Fill boneswarm turn 1-2, fill B2 turns 2-3, fill bokor on 3-end. This means that the bokor will never even sees a corpse till turn 3 at the earliest. I've found a couple options that I'm going to try out over the next couple weeks.
Option 1: Add a second cauldron. I don't currently have a second cauldron but I can see the versatility of having two. The only issue being I would have to re-consider free models to get the second cauldron or rework points to fit in the second cauldron.
Option 2: Replace the bokor and shamblers with another unit. My initial thought was to add in a min unit of bog trogs ambushers. GMP x2 + min unit of ambushers = 2 free models on the nose (40/40 points where with the bokor it is 42/40 points). This also frees up 2 points for solos which can also be used to feed the feat. The ambushers could ambush in when they are needed so that they can stay safely off the table until the feat is needed or if I get into a bind with scenario.
Option 3: Replace a unit of GMP with a unit of croaks and have the bokor follow them to collect their corpses. By running double GMP, the bokor is solely relying on the cauldron to fill him since the number of potential bodies that could fill him is limited. By replacing one unit of GMP with croaks it gives him the potential of 10 corpses to collect as the croaks die off. This would be the simplest change to the list since both the GMP and raiders are 16 points for a max unit. I've ran this setup before and the recursion did work well, I just need to practice better model placement for deployment and unpacking of the list so that the bokor keeps all the croaks in collection range.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Aug 30, 2018 7:17:59 GMT
I usually have my Bokor follow the GMP so it can collect those corpses. With 2 cauldrons I always fill the Bokor first turn and usually second as well, often have 15-20 shamblers in play. They stand in a zone or charge something with a huge base and do a single combined melee attack, put 10 boxes into a derpturtle the other day with a POW 17 charge I find shamblers very good for the feat, I often remove 15+ of them, to gain fury, sometimes corpse, and to heal dracodile (or other beasts). I also like having a unit that can camp in zones while gators jam the opponent. But yeah, if you can, definitely add a second Cauldron.
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 30, 2018 12:00:30 GMT
I usually have my Bokor follow the GMP so it can collect those corpses. With 2 cauldrons I always fill the Bokor first turn and usually second as well, often have 15-20 shamblers in play. They stand in a zone or charge something with a huge base and do a single combined melee attack, put 10 boxes into a derpturtle the other day with a POW 17 charge I find shamblers very good for the feat, I often remove 15+ of them, to gain fury, sometimes corpse, and to heal dracodile (or other beasts). I also like having a unit that can camp in zones while gators jam the opponent. But yeah, if you can, definitely add a second Cauldron. I may have to work up a couple lists with double cauldron to try out. Apart from being able to fill everything much faster, double spectral lashes could be really helpful for lining up B2 for an assassination run.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Aug 30, 2018 14:53:40 GMT
Dual puppet master is also a freakin’ schmazing! One for BLoB and one for the Dracodile
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 31, 2018 13:33:16 GMT
So the next time I take out B2 I'm going to try double cauldrons. Here are the two lists I want to try out: W/ Dracodile
conflictchamber.com/#cb201b_-0vjKjQjTjWj_2QfFjXjXjOkckcMinion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Blindwater Congregation [Barnabas 2] Barnabas, Lord of Blood [+23] - Blind Walker [10] - Dracodile [36] - Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Bone Shrine [2] Feralgeist [2] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [0(5)] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers [10] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] Gatorman Posse (max) [16]
Feralgiest and chef take flags and zones. Blindwalker is a shield guard for the drac and having the eyeless arc node is always useful to get rebuke out.
W/O Dracodile conflictchamber.com/#cb201b_-0vjK4cjQbNbNjWj_2QjSjSfFjXjXjOkckcMinion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Blindwater Congregation [Barnabas 2] Barnabas, Lord of Blood [+23] - Blackhide Wrastler [16] - Blind Walker [10] - Boneswarm [7] - Boneswarm [7] - Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Bone Shrine [2] Feralgeist [2] Gatorman Husk [3] Gatorman Husk [3] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [0(5)] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers [10] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] Gatorman Posse (max) [16]
Each one of the above lists do not include WE&SJ, to test B2 without the pair to determine whether or not they are actually *needed* in the list. There is no doubt that in the small under area of EoBN and Starcrossed def 12 GMP survive much longer than they should, and has even caused some misses on the dracodile. Not sure that either of those lists are in their final form but they are a starting point nonetheless.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Sept 1, 2018 13:06:22 GMT
My list is a combination of the two and I believe you'll really enjoy the Posse with BLoB, I find them amazing!
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