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Post by challenger on May 25, 2018 20:52:59 GMT
I understand that realistically not that much changed for battle mages due to mega mitten being s good freebie. But its still i think a really weird change to them
It both forces your list construction into a particular pidgeon hole - as force barrier is really good on them, and opens up a new weakness to mid game mega mittens dying and removing a key defensive buff for later turns.
Ill not cry over the change because like i said, you were probably bringing artificers anyway. I was just in a camp that already like battle mages as is and perhaps a 1pt reduction was enough. Having a freebie tax to keep the most important defensive buff you used to have innately isnt worth a 1pt reduction wnd set defense... imo
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Post by forthehorde on May 30, 2018 16:06:15 GMT
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Post by falkman on May 30, 2018 16:25:06 GMT
That was later stated to be wrong, and corrected to Set defense. |
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Post by forthehorde on May 30, 2018 16:37:18 GMT
Ah that's unfortunate. Polarity shield would've been way nicer.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on May 30, 2018 19:06:36 GMT
Silly question but its nagging me in the back of my mind. Why does Retribution need another CID? Sure there are some things that need updated, like some theme stuff and maybe a Caster or two overhaul, but what else am I not seeing? I'm not being salty here at all, I am just looking for some examples of what would constitute a CID. Was there an Insider I missed that explains this? I'm sure there are other factions that need it more than us getting another one. Please let me know, Thank you!
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Post by streetpizza on May 30, 2018 19:24:45 GMT
Final answer on that one would have to come from PP themselves.
I think you'll find internet opinion largely states that Ret themes simply aren't working as intended. They're forcing cookie cutter builds more than most other factions and limiting the combined arms military approach that the faction was originally designed around from being truly viable. A lot of the time other factions can solve these issues with mercs available to them but again Ret is limited here so the solutions must be found completely within the themes themselves which leads back the start of this paragraph.
That's the design loop hell Ret list building is stuck in. I don't even play Ret but I can feel the faction's pain every time i talk list building with my main opponent who does.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on May 30, 2018 19:27:53 GMT
For one thing Ret hasn't had a CID at all, so it's not another it's a first.
Mostly though it's what you said, tweaks to themes to make them more interesting and get more of our models on the table and some touches to models that the devs feel aren't quite in the right spot.
What we can infer (and may have been explicitly stated, I don't remember) is that this means we aren't going to see a release wave for quite some time. It's not unreasonable to assume that since Ret is currently the only faction getting one of these (that we know of) it means that our next release wave is up to a couple years away. It's a safe bet that any faction you feel needs a CID more than Ret is ahead of Ret in the release cycle.
We'll know more at L&L I'm sure.
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Post by streetpizza on May 30, 2018 19:39:45 GMT
For one thing Ret hasn't had a CID at all, so it's not another it's a first. Mostly though it's what you said, tweaks to themes to make them more interesting and get more of our models on the table and some touches to models that the devs feel aren't quite in the right spot. What we can infer (and may have been explicitly stated, I don't remember) is that this means we aren't going to see a release wave for quite some time. It's not unreasonable to assume that since Ret is currently the only faction getting one of these (that we know of) it means that our next release wave is up to a couple years away. It's a safe bet that any faction you feel needs a CID more than Ret is ahead of Ret in the release cycle. We'll know more at L&L I'm sure. Ret isn't the only one to get a mini CID. Darkhost got one for cryx and Bones of Orboros got one for circle without any releases. |
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on May 30, 2018 19:58:06 GMT
That's fair, I forgot about those. Either way, probably a safe bet that any new release wave is a ways out.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358 
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Post by germanicus on May 31, 2018 3:32:10 GMT
Ah that's unfortunate. Polarity shield would've been way nicer. Sure, it'd be out of theme, but Rahn could field an entirely unchargeable army (well, practically speaking, predominantly unchargeable). That would cause a lot of hair-tearing there! XD Silly question but its nagging me in the back of my mind. Why does Retribution need another CID? Sure there are some things that need updated, like some theme stuff and maybe a Caster or two overhaul, but what else am I not seeing? I'm not being salty here at all, I am just looking for some examples of what would constitute a CID. Was there an Insider I missed that explains this? I'm sure there are other factions that need it more than us getting another one. Please let me know, Thank you! Eh, as already pointed out, this is Ret's first CID (excluding Battle Engines and 12 Factions of Christmas, which were the only two that included Ret models... a sum total of three, one revised, two released). Every other major faction has had a planned CID cycle (if not a full CID cycle, Circle, Skorne and Mercs notwithstanding, for which Circle and Mercs are scheduled and known, Skorne, I'll concede, they have a boatload of issues) while some of the others have had CID's based on specific themes. Now, given that this CID for Ret is a mini one and covers all of the themes that we have and a handful of models from each that's quite a lot to cover for a 'mini' CID. External observers, upon looking back at the more focussed nature of previous CID cycles, should not envy, nor see reason to envy, what appears to be a faction-wide band-aid. Ret isn't the only one to get a mini CID. Darkhost got one for cryx and Bones of Orboros got one for circle without any releases. Thing is, those CID's were concentrated on a single theme each, while we're getting one for the entire faction. My concern is that since it's a 'mini CID' but all four themes are getting tweaks, if it doesn't last long enough, then there won't be sufficient time to submit enough battle reports for all four sets of adjustments (which will mean a combination of new combos so busted other factions cry for a nerf within a month and the removal of combos that propped up other lists, thereby wrecking internal balance), but if it lasts too long so as to receive enough feedback to go through a set of reasonable week 2-3 revisions, there are likely to be complaints (likely from more unreasonable corners, admittedly, but perhaps others) about why so much time was put into what was ostensibly 'a mini CID'. |
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on May 31, 2018 6:18:40 GMT
I think you'll find internet opinion largely states that Ret themes simply aren't working as intended. They're forcing cookie cutter builds more than most other factions and limiting the combined arms military approach that the faction was originally designed around from being truly viable. The bold part pretty much sums up my issue with the current themes. |
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on May 31, 2018 12:38:29 GMT
Thanks all for the informative responses. I was confusing an earlier CID for a ret one. And hopefully themes will get a little more inclusive for list building.
I wonder if PP will expand the available merc/minion line up for Ret as well?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 31, 2018 12:45:39 GMT
Thanks all for the informative responses. I was confusing an earlier CID for a ret one. And hopefully themes will get a little more inclusive for list building. I wonder if PP will expand the available merc/minion line up for Ret as well? I can't really see PP allowing more current Mercs/Minions into Ret, I am no fluff bunny, but from what I gather Ios is a very insular society, and the elves are pretty racist (like almost all fantasy), hence why the only mercs they can take are other elves (Nyss Hunters, Edrea, Dahlia), the only exceptions are Madelyn (not sure what the fluff is behind her), and Eilish (who is just a cynical shoe-horn to sell magazines)
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on May 31, 2018 13:00:12 GMT
I think you'll find internet opinion largely states that Ret themes simply aren't working as intended. They're forcing cookie cutter builds more than most other factions and limiting the combined arms military approach that the faction was originally designed around from being truly viable. The bold part pretty much sums up my issue with the current themes. Thankfully if the known changes are anything to go by we'll be seeing more models get spread around to different themes so we can do combined arms again. |
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Post by oncomingstorm on May 31, 2018 13:59:19 GMT
Thanks all for the informative responses. I was confusing an earlier CID for a ret one. And hopefully themes will get a little more inclusive for list building. I wonder if PP will expand the available merc/minion line up for Ret as well? I can't really see PP allowing more current Mercs/Minions into Ret, I am no fluff bunny, but from what I gather Ios is a very insular society, and the elves are pretty racist (like almost all fantasy), hence why the only mercs they can take are other elves (Nyss Hunters, Edrea, Dahlia), the only exceptions are Madelyn (not sure what the fluff is behind her), and Eilish (who is just a cynical shoe-horn to sell magazines)
Give me partisan A and H and I will be very happy. Kiss in faction helps with both forges and shadows main issues. |
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