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Post by mcdermott on Aug 6, 2018 6:45:47 GMT
Ios was documented as a place before the retribution was a faction. Skorne is as much "handwavium" as khador, as it was a 1st gen Hordes army creation. Pirate elves, much less a group of pirate elves enough to make a unit out of is "flies in the face of lorium" It involves either nomadic reindeer herders somehow becoming seafarers, or a landlocked highly advanced people entering into the world of scurvy and primitivism to sail the seas.
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 6, 2018 7:11:35 GMT
Ios was documented as a place before the retribution was a faction. Skorne is as much "handwavium" as khador, as it was a 1st gen Hordes army creation. Pirate elves, much less a group of pirate elves enough to make a unit out of is "flies in the face of lorium" It involves either nomadic reindeer herders somehow becoming seafarers, or a landlocked highly advanced people entering into the world of scurvy and primitivism to sail the seas. But I did not mention Ios (which is not a currently playable faction any more than Ord or Rhul). I stated the Retribution, they are not entirely the same thing. The first inklings we had of the Retribution was Eiryss herself, but even then it was presented more as a personal thing for her and not being a scout for a larger organization.
Skorne was hand waved in, even if it was one of the first factions of the Hordes side (which came in to being some time after Warmachine). With Boomhowler, we had insights as to the Trollbloods and their fight. The Blackclads had representations in the old iron kingdom models (dice rolling Bradigus, no less). Everblight was one of the children of Cryx's Toruk, though we mainly found about those children because of Everblight, so even he was a bit hand waved in. The Skorne literally came from nowhere, crossing the uncrossable desert because of King ex-machina.
And no, it would not necessarily have to be a group of reindeer herders (though, it is a possibility, we really have no idea how far their tribes have stretched), but it could be a group of elves who left and settled the more southern of the Scharde Islands near Raelthorne or even from islands closer to Zu long before their cousins brought the gods to Caen. Their presence can easily be explained as being drawn in by the Totem Hunter's travels. Any Iosan transplant privateers would definitely be of solo variety, much like Rockbottom, though.
That's not really "flying in the face of lorium", but rather taking advantage of the lack of information of Caen that has been currently presented, much like what was done with the Skorne.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 6, 2018 10:48:02 GMT
I hope the Steelhead CID is soon, just bought some second hand Halberdiers and Cavalry, along with Stannis and Nick
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Post by elladan52 on Aug 6, 2018 15:08:21 GMT
Ios was documented as a place before the retribution was a faction. Skorne is as much "handwavium" as khador, as it was a 1st gen Hordes army creation. Pirate elves, much less a group of pirate elves enough to make a unit out of is "flies in the face of lorium" It involves either nomadic reindeer herders somehow becoming seafarers, or a landlocked highly advanced people entering into the world of scurvy and primitivism to sail the seas. But I did not mention Ios (which is not a currently playable faction any more than Ord or Rhul). I stated the Retribution, they are not entirely the same thing. The first inklings we had of the Retribution was Eiryss herself, but even then it was presented more as a personal thing for her and not being a scout for a larger organization.
Skorne was hand waved in, even if it was one of the first factions of the Hordes side (which came in to being some time after Warmachine). With Boomhowler, we had insights as to the Trollbloods and their fight. The Blackclads had representations in the old iron kingdom models (dice rolling Bradigus, no less). Everblight was one of the children of Cryx's Toruk, though we mainly found about those children because of Everblight, so even he was a bit hand waved in. The Skorne literally came from nowhere, crossing the uncrossable desert because of King ex-machina.
And no, it would not necessarily have to be a group of reindeer herders (though, it is a possibility, we really have no idea how far their tribes have stretched), but it could be a group of elves who left and settled the more southern of the Scharde Islands near Raelthorne or even from islands closer to Zu long before their cousins brought the gods to Caen. Their presence can easily be explained as being drawn in by the Totem Hunter's travels. Any Iosan transplant privateers would definitely be of solo variety, much like Rockbottom, though.
That's not really "flying in the face of lorium", but rather taking advantage of the lack of information of Caen that has been currently presented, much like what was done with the Skorne.
Skorne was in the original rpg, that's about as least hand waved in as you can get in this setting. They are absolutely foundational.
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Post by sludgeogre on Aug 6, 2018 15:17:41 GMT
But I did not mention Ios (which is not a currently playable faction any more than Ord or Rhul). I stated the Retribution, they are not entirely the same thing. The first inklings we had of the Retribution was Eiryss herself, but even then it was presented more as a personal thing for her and not being a scout for a larger organization.
Skorne was hand waved in, even if it was one of the first factions of the Hordes side (which came in to being some time after Warmachine). With Boomhowler, we had insights as to the Trollbloods and their fight. The Blackclads had representations in the old iron kingdom models (dice rolling Bradigus, no less). Everblight was one of the children of Cryx's Toruk, though we mainly found about those children because of Everblight, so even he was a bit hand waved in. The Skorne literally came from nowhere, crossing the uncrossable desert because of King ex-machina.
And no, it would not necessarily have to be a group of reindeer herders (though, it is a possibility, we really have no idea how far their tribes have stretched), but it could be a group of elves who left and settled the more southern of the Scharde Islands near Raelthorne or even from islands closer to Zu long before their cousins brought the gods to Caen. Their presence can easily be explained as being drawn in by the Totem Hunter's travels. Any Iosan transplant privateers would definitely be of solo variety, much like Rockbottom, though.
That's not really "flying in the face of lorium", but rather taking advantage of the lack of information of Caen that has been currently presented, much like what was done with the Skorne.
Skorne was in the original rpg, that's about as least hand waved in as you can get in this setting. They are absolutely foundational. Skorne was in the original fluff and was supposed to be the original bad guy of the whole gaming universe, but because they wanted them to be a Hordes faction, they thought it didn't make sense to release Hordes rules alongside Warmachine at the outset, so they were shelved until Hordes was released and Cryx was created instead. Skorne is indeed a foundational piece of Warmachine and Hordes lore.
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 6, 2018 15:24:48 GMT
Pirate Elves would be a little hamfisted in the setting since Elves are a fairly geographically limited species.
It would make more sense to either just have existing piratical inclined species or make up new ones.
Could always bring back the Orgoth for that as they were a seafaring people.
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 6, 2018 16:05:22 GMT
Skorne was in the original rpg, that's about as least hand waved in as you can get in this setting. They are absolutely foundational. Skorne was in the original fluff and was supposed to be the original bad guy of the whole gaming universe, but because they wanted them to be a Hordes faction, they thought it didn't make sense to release Hordes rules alongside Warmachine at the outset, so they were shelved until Hordes was released and Cryx was created instead. Skorne is indeed a foundational piece of Warmachine and Hordes lore. I was not aware that Skorne were in the Witchfire Trilogy. I just never saw them mentioned in any of the Mk 1 Warmachine books before the Hordes release nor found any Skorne Iron Kingdom models. From that perspective, Skorne literally seem to appear out of nowhere. Pirate Elves would be a little hamfisted in the setting since Elves are a fairly geographically limited species. It would make more sense to either just have existing piratical inclined species or make up new ones. Could always bring back the Orgoth for that as they were a seafaring people. While I don't disagree with the latter points (and don't really have anything against it), I disagree as to the hamfisted-ness of it since we only know of how the current nation of Ios sees its history. And how a nation sees its history is not always how things happened, especially in the early days before good records are kept or after a destruction of a greater nation. Please note, that I am not stating that there should be an elf naval unit, just that there can be due to not having as full picture of Caen as we do our own world.
And it is possible to bring the Orgoth back, mainly because I doubt the entire culture uprooted itself to cross an ocean to an unknown land to conquer it. Of course, I don't know how superstitious the Orgoth who didn't sail the seas to Immoren are, and a fleet sailing off and never returning would be a good sign as to not poke a bear (or dragon in this case).
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faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121
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Post by faelin on Aug 6, 2018 21:38:14 GMT
I can confirm that Skorne were around from the start of mk1. I don't know if they were given a name, but I remember the vague rumors of a brutal bloodthirsty menace from the unknowns beyond the wastes. I kept getting so excited waiting for them to be released.
If I remember right, the Orgoth expeditionary force fled back to their homeland, infected with ?rotlung? from everyone's favorite elderly witch. So I imagine the plague and need to rebuild an army probably kept them busy for a few generations. But now would be a great time to show up. They are one of the few established people who have the magic know-how to cross oceans(you need magic to protect your ships).
If they made either Zu or Orgoth I'd buy them in an instant.
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Post by mcdermott on Aug 6, 2018 21:40:12 GMT
Orgoth seems like more of a mini faction than merc faction...and i'm curious how they would design them to be more than a cryx clone
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 6, 2018 21:44:08 GMT
Orgoth seems like more of a mini faction than merc faction...and i'm curious how they would design them to be more than a cryx clone Or a cephalyx clone for that matter. Maybe a super evil blend on both?
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 6, 2018 23:18:00 GMT
If I remember right, the Orgoth expeditionary force fled back to their homeland, infected with ?rotlung? from everyone's favorite elderly witch. So I imagine the plague and need to rebuild an army probably kept them busy for a few generations. But now would be a great time to show up. They are one of the few established people who have the magic know-how to cross oceans(you need magic to protect your ships). The fleeing Orgoth never made it home. Toruk took care of the fleet and saved a few to learn about their magics, but none of them lasted long enough to make it home or inform the Iron Kingdoms as to the fleet's fate.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Aug 7, 2018 2:28:08 GMT
If I remember right, the Orgoth expeditionary force fled back to their homeland, infected with ?rotlung? from everyone's favorite elderly witch. So I imagine the plague and need to rebuild an army probably kept them busy for a few generations. But now would be a great time to show up. They are one of the few established people who have the magic know-how to cross oceans(you need magic to protect your ships). The fleeing Orgoth never made it home. Toruk took care of the fleet and saved a few to learn about their magics, but none of them lasted long enough to make it home or inform the Iron Kingdoms as to the fleet's fate. The Orgoth ruled most of the Iron Kingdoms for centuries, is my understanding. Their home "knows" what happened, even if they don't have all the details. Also, aren't they supposed to be large, demi human vikings who use evil "not especially necromantic" soul magic? I'm not sure portraying them as different from everything else would be all that difficult.
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Post by mcdermott on Aug 7, 2018 2:32:34 GMT
So doom reavers + soul collection?
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 7, 2018 4:02:22 GMT
The fleeing Orgoth never made it home. Toruk took care of the fleet and saved a few to learn about their magics, but none of them lasted long enough to make it home or inform the Iron Kingdoms as to the fleet's fate. The Orgoth ruled most of the Iron Kingdoms for centuries, is my understanding. Their home "knows" what happened, even if they don't have all the details. Also, aren't they supposed to be large, demi human vikings who use evil "not especially necromantic" soul magic? I'm not sure portraying them as different from everything else would be all that difficult. I haven't seen much on the interplay between the Orgoth homeland and Immoren during the Orgoth occupation. I just remember reading that the survivors of the Colossals took to their ships and the Iron Kingdom ancestors couldn't follow. They were/are dreading a possible return of them. Those fleeing ships were basically destroyed by Toruk. He already had a lot of magical knowledge before the Orgoth, but he saw the advantages of gaining more knowledge, and his Lich Lords still use some of the knowledge gleaned from them.
Now, there is no knowledge on if the Orgoth had not moved their entire culture to Immoren or if they were just conquistadors. If they were conquistadors, that means they have cousins back from where they came from who haven't decided to cross the ocean for 2,000 years. That would indicate either a high level of superstition, a complete loss of ability to cross the ocean, or the Orgoth were locusts who leapt in to the ocean after consuming all that was available in the land they left.
But yeah, it seems that the Orgoth had some of the capabilities of how Skorne and Cryxian armies have soul reaving, storage, and burning as an energy source. The Doom Reaver's swords are Orgoth make, after all, aren't they?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 7, 2018 7:03:22 GMT
But yeah, it seems that the Orgoth had some of the capabilities of how Skorne and Cryxian armies have soul reaving, storage, and burning as an energy source. The Doom Reaver's swords are Orgoth make, after all, aren't they?
They are, as are many of the evil artifacts left in Immoren such as the staves of Grey Lords, the Witch Coven's Egregore, the temple that Asphyxious tried to use to attain godhood (or at least god-like power). Though the Grey Lords seem to have found out how to make some of these items as they are actually producing Fell Swords.
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