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Post by mcdermott on Aug 3, 2018 17:55:48 GMT
More jacks on the aquatic chassis may well be why they were delayed. For parity itd be 1 new heavy and 2 lights?
They would definitely need a dedicated ranged unit
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Post by jisidro on Aug 3, 2018 21:16:30 GMT
There is enough already. Make them attractive and recast them. Mercs doesn't need repeated Warjacks so pirates can take them. Make every Warjacks privateer if taken in the theme.
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Post by gobber on Aug 3, 2018 21:31:12 GMT
The Shae/Talion/Sea Dog subtheme of pirates has been pretty well mined out, but the Ordic privateer side really hasn't been. Ord's relatively powerful and has a first-rate navy supplemented by legal privateers (ie Bart) which should vastly outnumber the crew of the Talion, and not need to bring them as support solos... Ashlynn's moving the plot in Llael towards eventual Ordic involvement as well (not just Crucible; Alyce is related to King Baird); If they're planning a full Ordic release cycle down the road that'd explain delaying the pirates CID untile then. In that I wouldn't be suprised to see a new unit of Ordic privateers, a new Ordic pirate solo or two and limited access to Ord's actual army/navy. That'd also be a sensible time to release any new Black Anchor Heavy Industries products (by which I mean the in-universe makers of the galleon, not the new distribution service) whether that's a battle engine or not
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 4, 2018 2:13:53 GMT
There is enough already. Make them attractive and recast them. Mercs doesn't need repeated Warjacks so pirates can take them. Make every Warjacks privateer if taken in the theme. 2 'jacks are enough (the Bucc's not Aquatic, oddly)? To be fair, there are very few 'jacks in the Mercenary line over all, and not counting the Monstrosities and the Toro (which has been in the fluff forever due to Shaw), the last new 'jack was the Rover, and that one is quite old now. Don't even get my started on how much duplication there is among the the big 4's 'jack lines as it is.
And no one is asking for 'jack duplication, just some new 'jacks that can do things in new/different ways. A trident-throwing Heavy as a "Whaler" carries some interesting connotations, for example.
Expanding Ordic naval units would be interesting, but that's more about new support solos and 'casters then new units. Although, now that I think about it, Ordic Marines could present some interesting design spaces, especially if Bart's fleet was given some marks to use them for certain operations.
Honestly, the lack of Privateer 'casters is a concern (as much, if not more, for Rhulic and Cephelyx) that should be addressed in the CiD. An Ordic 'caster and one of the 3 going Epic would go a long way to correcting that.
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Post by gobber on Aug 4, 2018 16:36:00 GMT
Was thinking more on that pirate battle engine concept: the Galleon exists because the Ordic shipbuilders at Black Anchor Heavy Industries refused to be one-upped by Cygnar/Khador. Now their domestic competitor, Crucible Arms has taken the rails off the battle engine market. If BAHI doesn't have a landships committee hard at work something's deeply wrong.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Aug 4, 2018 17:19:44 GMT
Plenty of design space left for pirates. What about the non human races? Trolls, Ogryn, Gobbers, Elves. There's options for riflemen, shotgun type guys with sprays, more heavily armored "breacher" types.
Could have a battle engine or a structure. Lots of possibilities left.
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Post by mcdermott on Aug 5, 2018 1:54:34 GMT
The issue with that is its interactivity with the solos was my point. They have a LOT of solos that give a LOT of buffs.
Pirate elves seems...unlikely given how landlocked Ios is
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 5, 2018 2:34:44 GMT
The issue with that is its interactivity with the solos was my point. They have a LOT of solos that give a LOT of buffs. Pirate elves seems...unlikely given how landlocked Ios is And if they were Nyss who fled before Everblight found them? Or a group of elves who left Ios long ago such as the Nyss?
True, Iosian naval members will not be a thing till they either expand vastly to the east or succeed in wiping out humanity sufficiently to guarantee no more wizards.
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Post by mcdermott on Aug 5, 2018 2:46:46 GMT
Itd be handwavium and generally worsen the setting.
Steelheads need the fleshing out and improvement anyway, as well as their own CID. They're literally the iconic mercenary company of the game.
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 5, 2018 8:01:46 GMT
Itd be handwavium and generally worsen the setting. Steelheads need the fleshing out and improvement anyway, as well as their own CID. They're literally the iconic mercenary company of the game. Fleshing out? Yes. Improvement? Not as much as the Privateers do. The go to unit for Mercenaries are Steelheads. Their Warcaster is also one of the better choices. Privateers have Bart for a go to, and that's it unless you really want to run a plethora of solos.
And sorry to say, almost every advancement of any character or introduction of a new unit requires some handwavium. Where have the Steelhead artillery units been all this time? That much is being handwaved away.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 5, 2018 19:40:15 GMT
Plz no more pirate themes! Open the theme but let's not go Cryx on pirate themes!
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Post by Azuresun on Aug 5, 2018 20:30:57 GMT
Pirate CID could bring a new caster, A ranged unit, some UA's and then a huge host of legacy changes. That's what the pirates need. The problem is that the subfaction is built around victim-stat infantry, and there's almost no gunline mitigation in their casters. The solos make the pirates good IF they stay alive and don't get picked off by random blasts, snipers, sprays or eleaps and they keep infantry in their teeny-tiny bubbles where they're squashed up for blast damage. I don't know how you can change that basic fact unless you rewrite Shae and Fiona for some hardcore anti-shooting tech. (Montador is over in Irregulars running a jack list)
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Post by mcdermott on Aug 6, 2018 0:44:26 GMT
Itd be handwavium and generally worsen the setting. Steelheads need the fleshing out and improvement anyway, as well as their own CID. They're literally the iconic mercenary company of the game. Fleshing out? Yes. Improvement? Not as much as the Privateers do. The go to unit for Mercenaries are Steelheads. Their Warcaster is also one of the better choices. Privateers have Bart for a go to, and that's it unless you really want to run a plethora of solos.
And sorry to say, almost every advancement of any character or introduction of a new unit requires some handwavium. Where have the Steelhead artillery units been all this time? That much is being handwaved away.
Yeah..."oh and steelheads have standard military equipment" vs "here's these new elves who fled to the sea from their landlocked nation thousands of years ago and were never mentioned or foreshadowed ever before"
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Aug 6, 2018 3:03:46 GMT
Fleshing out? Yes. Improvement? Not as much as the Privateers do. The go to unit for Mercenaries are Steelheads. Their Warcaster is also one of the better choices. Privateers have Bart for a go to, and that's it unless you really want to run a plethora of solos.
And sorry to say, almost every advancement of any character or introduction of a new unit requires some handwavium. Where have the Steelhead artillery units been all this time? That much is being handwaved away.
Yeah..."oh and steelheads have standard military equipment" vs "here's these new elves who fled to the sea from their landlocked nation thousands of years ago and were never mentioned or foreshadowed ever before" Elves can be as easy as, here's a group of Nyss that hasn't returned to the fold. Or, here's an exiled Iosan house that hadn't previously been discussed. They've been making their way as privateers all these years. They may or may not now be partisans. The fluff for WMH isn't so all encompassing that you can't add new stuff in. Especially as it's character centric, it can just mean that "these" pirates hadn't previously been encountered by any of the main characters.
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 6, 2018 4:52:13 GMT
Yeah..."oh and steelheads have standard military equipment" vs "here's these new elves who fled to the sea from their landlocked nation thousands of years ago and were never mentioned or foreshadowed ever before" Elves can be as easy as, here's a group of Nyss that hasn't returned to the fold. Or, here's an exiled Iosan house that hadn't previously been discussed. They've been making their way as privateers all these years. They may or may not now be partisans. The fluff for WMH isn't so all encompassing that you can't add new stuff in. Especially as it's character centric, it can just mean that "these" pirates hadn't previously been encountered by any of the main characters. Or at the least, the interactions with the main characters had no bearing on the plots being told at the time. We do not have record of (nor for whom) every single ship Fiona, Bart, and Shae have captured and destroyed over their career. We know they will work for Cryx, but how often has that happened and how have they managed to get away without being subsumed by The Great Rack?
While there can be stories told of them, the stories haven't been, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. All of our history books miss out on the thousands of stories being played out every single day of a war in the flesh of every soldier and officer. Most are inconsequential to the overall information a history book is required to present. We don't know how many trees were knocked down by Sloan's advance to find out what the Cryx forces were doing inside Ord down the Dragon's Breath river, nor how much that inflamed the local Blackclads and the patrol interactions that resulted from them.
There is simply too much information to be had in the fluff snippets we do get, so the information has to be focused on to what is pertinent for the story at hand. Introducing a "new" unit that had been somewhere else for all this time and introduces a new sub-faction at the same time may seem as hand-wavium, but it really is par for the course of miniature games who embrace an evolving story line. Especially when we can have situations like Severius1 facing off against Xerxis2 which would require a temporal wrinkle in order to accomplish requires far more hand-wavium then introducing a new sub-force from a previously unexplored (by the fiction and model representation) area of the lands.
By the same token, the entire Skorne army and the Retribution is created by 'hand-wavium' because they suddenly came out of equally unexplored thin air. I don't see a lot of complaints about their existence (their power ratings and effectiveness, yes, but not their existence).
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