gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
|
Post by gmonkey on May 17, 2018 18:33:05 GMT
Ah - I'd missed that you said Heavy Metal.
I own 16 sword knights, but have never played them all. If you run Stryker2 in heavy metal, you could do worse I suppose. They can hit with 4 dice on a charge if you position right.
|
|
kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
|
Post by kaernak on May 17, 2018 19:40:04 GMT
Ah - I'd missed that you said Heavy Metal. I own 16 sword knights, but have never played them all. If you run Stryker2 in heavy metal, you could do worse I suppose. They can hit with 4 dice on a charge if you position right. edit: nvm misread what you were saying.
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 17, 2018 21:18:27 GMT
Little trick with the Lancer, use it's shield to knock out the cortex on a Warjack rather than killing, with Stryker 2 you can use his initial, power up focus and feat attack to do it
|
|
kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
|
Post by kaernak on May 18, 2018 1:09:39 GMT
Little trick with the Lancer, use it's shield to knock out the cortex on a Warjack rather than killing, with Stryker 2 you can use his initial, power up focus and feat attack to do it This is a good idea, however I'm not keen to leaving an enemy behind me, no matter how crippled their systems.
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on May 18, 2018 4:01:21 GMT
Well, if you need to make use of the feat of Stryker2 warjack is not the main pick. Although units lacks booated damage roll on the feat melee attack. Stormclad is the beat beatstick jack we have, with RNG 2, P+S 19, Electro-Leap, Assault, and make up its fragile chassis by a buckler means you can't expect better choice. Dynamo is also good, although it is fragile than Stormclad but have devastating med-range damage output as well as a beast in melee. If you need for the melee units, Sword Knight is the best friend of Stryker2; NOT FRAGILE despite of being Cygnar melee unit, has decent RNG 1(that allows them to concentrate the attack and make about 4~5 charge attacks on a target, unlike RNG 0.5 which only allowed to make 2~3 at most), are cheap, means you can spam them. With Decelerarion and either Dirge of Mists/Heroic Call they can withstand much punishment. Their basic damage output is questionable but Stryker2 can make the gap by Positive Charge. Also remember that they needs a jack for Flank and Stryker2 needs a jack to have Positive Charge, means put a light jack near of them is not al bad idea anyways. Also, if you want to bring the melee units on Heavy Metal, apart Horgenhold Forge Guard+Captain Jonas Murdoch they are the only viable choice to do. Because of the number of attacks afforded by a unit of six stormblades compared to a single jack that might cost the same points, I'd recommend stormblade infantry (at least six POW15s) over a single heavy that might give you one POW18. The trick with stormblades is often just keeping them alive. Personally, I like to stack a single round of arcane shield with Iron Zeal to bring them up to ARM21 for a round. That usually gets them delivered. But so as to not completely dodge your question, the best two pure (cheap) melee jacks are the ironclad and hammersmith, and they both have different functions. The ironclad can be a hit fixer with its knockdown, and the hammersmith has movement shenanigans with its beat back and chain attack slam. For myself, I like to run a lancer with Stryker2 to leverage the arc node to land rebuke, and Ol' Rowdy (a character ironclad) to keep Stryker safe in melee. When you get Stryker2 into melee with enemy troops who can't boost and get Rowdy B2B with him, Stryker2 is suddenly DEF 18 vs melee and DEF 20 vs shooting due to the in-melee bonus. Throw arcane shield on him and he's ARM19 to boot. I don't recommend Stormblade Infantry, for Stryker2 is not so good caster for them. They are fragile, and needs both ranged accuracy fix as well as defensive buffs but are not requird to have the damage buff. Although he is an OK caster thanks to Deceleration, but apart the fluff he is not that good pick and he works better with Sword Knights and Storm Lances(well, they are always good, though).
|
|
gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
|
Post by gmonkey on May 18, 2018 13:43:27 GMT
wow. That is actually super good to know. I thought a trample was a charge or some such. You can repo after a trample or after a successful charge, which is great if you're charging with a stormclad marshalled to a Stormblade captain against a reach 1 khador heavy. Assault in, make attacks, repo 5 back out. And that's just one of the many reasons why I love marshalled stormclads.
|
|
|
Post by octaviusmaximus on May 24, 2018 1:48:25 GMT
Cygnar doesn't really have any good beatstick jacks for their cost. Our jacks are quite expensive and generally don't hit very hard when they arrive to melee so trying to make it work often isn't worth it. Ironclads and Hammersmiths are about the best we have, and it's not great.
|
|
gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
|
Post by gmonkey on May 24, 2018 12:55:09 GMT
Hammersmith plus lightning shroud is the balls. With Nemo1, that jack can get seven POW19 attacks, with beat back and e-leaps.
|
|
|
Post by octaviusmaximus on May 24, 2018 13:49:44 GMT
Hammersmith plus lightning shroud is the balls. With Nemo1, that jack can get seven POW19 attacks, with beat back and e-leaps. If your opponent lets you get that there and, importantly, that is a 8 focus investment to make that jack threat 11", an extremely unimpressive threat range. It can do the job, but its not nearly a trivial investment.
|
|
kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
|
Post by kaernak on May 24, 2018 14:37:35 GMT
I find Kraye seems to help them get there a little easier. Lots of movement tricks.
|
|
|
Post by octaviusmaximus on May 24, 2018 15:25:13 GMT
I find Kraye seems to help them get there a little easier. Lots of movement tricks. But then they bounce off anything with good armour. My experience is that Kraye can't run a list which has the level of efficiency needed to tackle enemy armour or enemy infantry effectively.
|
|
kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
|
Post by kaernak on May 24, 2018 15:32:22 GMT
I wouldn't drop jack heavy into enemy infantry. That's a bad plan usually. A bunch of pow 17+ guys can usually deal with armor pretty well. Not many things go above 21ish. dice -4 isn't abysmal.
|
|
|
Post by octaviusmaximus on May 24, 2018 15:38:06 GMT
I wouldn't drop jack heavy into enemy infantry. That's a bad plan usually. A bunch of pow 17+ guys can usually deal with armor pretty well. Not many things go above 21ish. dice -4 isn't abysmal. Dice off 4 means 3 damage per hit. That means that in order to kill something with 30 boxes, you need to hit 10 times. That is not an answer at all.
|
|
kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
|
Post by kaernak on May 24, 2018 15:45:14 GMT
Then shooting (outside of a hunter) is probably much worse as the pows on the guns are usually lower than 17. So if we can't punch the armor or shoot the armor what do you do? 17-18 is fine because it is what you have.
|
|
|
Post by octaviusmaximus on May 24, 2018 15:53:52 GMT
Then shooting (outside of a hunter) is probably much worse as the pows on the guns are usually lower than 17. So if we can't punch the armor or shoot the armor what do you do? 17-18 is fine because it is what you have. Its about how much shooting you can leverage as well as how much counterplay your opponent has VS that shooting. Also guns can often boost damage more efficiently than melee, making a lot of guns quite similar in pow to melee.
|
|