|
Post by phobus on May 10, 2018 13:51:36 GMT
I’m trying to put together a Legion list for my wife who hasn’t played since mk2. Unfortunately I know just enough to be dangerous so I wanted to get a second opinion. She’s a big fan of Typhon and the gun line lists like the old Lylyth 2. Unfortunately the themes are restrictive and Typhon can only be played with Thagrosh. Playing 10-15 points down is rough so this is my best attempt: conflictchamber.com/#ca201b_-0-aCkEbfaRb8csb8csfTfTTheme: Primal Terrors Thagrosh 1 (+ 28) Typhon (20) Blight Bringer (32) Bolt Thrower (11) Warspear [max] (15) CA (5) Warspear [max] (15) CA (5) Hellmouth (free) Hellmouth (free) The idea is to have BB in the center giving +2 str and arm to the warspears and hellmouths and shooting infantry if possible. Thagrosh would be hotswapping Dragonic blessing between the two units of warspears which would give them pow 17 ranged attacks (POW 19 with prey). He could upkeep, cast draconic blessing and fog of war and still camp 1 fury each round. Hellmouths with def 12 vs ranged and armor 17/20 would be really hard to kill so they can hold zones and pull enemies into range of the Typhon. This seems promising on paper to me. What do you all think? Would running out of theme be better?
|
|
|
Post by copperflame on May 10, 2018 15:29:26 GMT
First - is this for fun and/or helping her relearn the ropes? Second - what models can we choose from when helping make a list?
Legion can run out of theme but I would say that you would need to have enough experience to be able to play against someone who IS in theme.
As far as what you have... it is very close to what I would run right now (I'm eager for the Chosen to come out - though I fear they'll have a high price point).
|
|
|
Post by phobus on May 10, 2018 15:44:08 GMT
The goal was a semi competitive list. It doesn’t need to win tournaments but it does need to be able to win casual games. I’m trying for a smaller model count army that includes Typhon. Any list I’ve been able to build involves buying and painting at least some more models. Currently she just has Lylyth 1, Kryssa, Thag1, Lylyth2, 1 Carnivean kit, 2 Bolt throwers, 4 shredders, a Nereph, Typhon, 2 shepherds, and 2 hellmouths. With this list she would just need two units of warspears with CA and the Blight Bringer. Still a lot to paint but not a lot of different models to coordinate and it looks like they can hit pretty hard at range.
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on May 10, 2018 18:18:34 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#ca201b_-0-aCkEbfaRb8csb8csfTfTTheme: Primal Terrors Thagrosh 1 (+ 28) Typhon (20) Blight Bringer (32) Bolt Thrower (11) Warspear [max] (15) CA (5) Warspear [max] (15) CA (5) Hellmouth (free) Hellmouth (free) This seems promising on paper to me. What do you all think? Would running out of theme be better? Overall the list looks pretty sound. One change I might suggest would be to drop the bolt thrower for a naga + 3 spell martyrs. The bolt thrower is going to have a hard time seeing through all those medium bases unless it runs hard on a flank. Access to the naga will give you wraithbane, which will allow you to clean up the increasing number of incorporeal models popping up in lists as well as getting around any pesky buffs with blessed. With the last 3 points, you can really only take 3 spell martyrs unless you grab a minions solo for 3 points. Thags does have obliteration which is has a hefty cost to it but does bring a significant pow. You can also use the spell martyrs to hold flags while the rest of your army runs into your opponents teeth.
|
|
whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by whydak on May 11, 2018 6:38:11 GMT
apoc21482x spell martyts and gobber cheff I would say
|
|
|
Post by dirtyharrypotter on May 11, 2018 16:18:21 GMT
With typhon, carni, two boltthrowers and two hellmouths you have the makings of a eThags gunline allready. 60 points of beasts right on the nose, 40 points left for units and two free hellmouths in terrors, or a seraph and paid hellmouth and just one unit+freebee (probably chosen?) Maybe even an AA and spellmartyrs, taking it to Oracles? I understand the appeal of spearchuckers under thags1 and BB, but I feel we don't do a hardcore gunline well enough, despite that +4 damage. The mobilty eThags offers with the feat, combined with the hellmouth's tricks, manifest destiny and dragons blood will set you up for better presence later on in the game.... I think
|
|
|
Post by phobus on May 13, 2018 13:52:18 GMT
The difficulty of running a gunline with either Thagrosh is they have no way to buff ranged damaged. With Thag1 I can at least buff strength which makes the warspears hit harder with their ranged attack. With Thag2 I really need to build more of a melee list. The feat and manifest destiny really rewards a good melee battle group and trying to do much ranged feels like a waste of his buffs.
|
|
|
Post by dirtyharrypotter on May 13, 2018 19:55:19 GMT
Yes, I cannot deny that. Thing is, if you want to build a gunline with typhon and a Thagrosh, I think you should do so with melee in mind. It's never going to be a full gunline. Warspears still have the problem of survivability and in your list above it's the brunt of your ranged damage. Each fallen warspear will cost you a lot more than their 3 points suggest, because BB is so tied into their role. pThags+BB give them a delicious +4S/+4A swing, but having seen Typhon blast an entire unit of trollkin champs apart in one turn it's not going to be enough I think. Those champs are tougher then your warspears.
Goin full gunnut is still a job for lily2 I feel. Warspears like the buffs for damage, mirage for spacing and go apeshit over that feat.
|
|
|
Post by dirtyharrypotter on May 14, 2018 5:46:40 GMT
I kinda forgot to extrapolate on what eThags brings to a gunline-ish list over that +4/+4 swing. Basically everything that's on his cards. In short it all equals to flexibility, and there's plenty to say about that.
The feat allows you to jojo out and hug threat ranges at 14+" (allways difficult to define this number, especially with spray beasts) after shooting. Boltthrowers can increase the gap with their knockback and the farrow briggands' hog wild order can work well with that if the table allows it. Depending on how the turn went you can instead move up and get some more hits in. Since thagrosh doesn't increase shooting you can activate him late turn and cast MD to buff those feat hits.... mind you, I don't think we jam all that hard under eThags. Doing this early on can cost you. That's why I like shooty beasts like typhon, carni and Azrael with him, they play well into this offensive option as well as the defensive un. Then there's assassination the way there allways was. Just a really flexible feat that didn't start to click for me untill I used these short range shooty beasts.
His spelllist; where to begin. Make something tough, knock things over (and make advancing furyintensive for your opponent), give your beasts a potential out of move turn (and something for your opponent to fret over as the clock is ticking), if you have a raek you also have a very potent countercharge with thagrosh and a cheeky one with raek, both of which may have manifest destiny on it. And of course ones the gap is closed, there's MD to up the battlegroup. Hell he can even get funky and something out of a teraph and counterblast.
His weapon. Perhaps a bit cornercase (it certainly is in my inept hands), but pushing out clouds is never bad for a gunline and it meshes well with golab. Granted, pThags has it as well, but eThags has better speed and flight to make good on that a little easier. I haven't really used it to great effect yet, only when people charge in a unit and that cloud blows a hole in there with some kind of counter attack. Pretty sweet if they forget and set that up for you, or when they remeber and are detered.
With this kind of list, he can be far less straightforward than one would think at first glance. I know I certainly didn't see it, him being the first warlock I was trying to get into. I think a gunline needs that over the raw power pThags offers.
|
|
newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140
|
Post by newsun on May 17, 2018 15:24:41 GMT
Abby 2 ravagores is a decent gunline, though it's vastly different from where this idea started.
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on May 27, 2018 4:43:43 GMT
I don't think a 'ranged list' in the conventional gunline style is worth it in legion. Shooting is rather expensive or specialized in legion, and I can't think of many lists that will be able to win wholesale on their ranged attacks alone. However, legion has some excellent hybrid shooting/melee options that can use shooting for threat range and table control while still being able to pull weight in melee. Since thagrosh2 is a topic here, this is my thagrosh2 list: conflictchamber.com/#ca201b_-0taDkHbvkMaOaRbucob9b9jxhWLegion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Oracles of Annihilation [Thagrosh 2] Thagrosh, the Messiah [+25] - Carnivean [18] - Naga Nightlurker [8] - Ravagore [16] - Seraph [14] - Typhon [20] - Succubus [0(4)] Spell Martyr [1] The Forsaken [0(4)] The Forsaken [0(4)] Ice Witches [7] Throne of Everblight [16] This is predominantly a ranged list. Every major asset in this list has ranged attacks or buffs ranged attacks. The bulk of the 'game' is played at range, skirmishing and softening targets, and threatening assassinations. However, it's all backed by the eventuality that it will tear into melee when the time is right and is quite devastating when that happens. To me, this is legion's 'natural environment'. The aesthetician in me appreciates that this is very iconic of a 'dragon' sweeping fire over its foes before finishing them off up close when necessary (it's not always necessary), and I like to think that this is intended to be how legion's 'ranged game' plays. We don't sit back and gunline things, we threaten at a distance then close into melee. This both heavily compliments and is in turn complimented by our alpha strike and assassination aptitudes, which both also play strongly into this style of play. So don't think like a rifleman. Think like a dragon. edit: Although, if you really DO want to play a conventional gunline, consider picking up Farrow Brigands+Warlord. They occupy something of a unique slot in Legion's shooting options in that they are a raw gunline unit, closest to archers, but unlike archers, brigands can anchor a frontline, which legion doesn't have a lot of other options for (sure warspears, but they usually can't just sit back and keep shooting). Usually legion pure-ranged lists will suffer from either being too flighty (raptors/striders/archers), or too direct (warspears, warbeasts, banshees), and brigands sit nicely in the middle of all that. Also with Prey and their own internal rules, they are largely proficient at their job without any outside help, so their lack of FF status isn't too crippling. Also you can take them in any theme list, so whichever route you go, you can fit them in.
|
|