What's new for the Legion/Hordes

Releases are built around theme lists now. They release a new theme list, and several new models that are pretty much tied to that theme list. A significant portion of the meta now is exclusively theme list based, with non-theme list-building being very rare. So most lists now are a specific slice of a faction rather than the whole pie. Ours was Primal Terrors, an Ogrun-based infantry theme list.

Legion's theme lists have been rather rough, however. PP has yet to give us an actual warbeast-focused theme list. Instead the 'adopted' beast theme list has generally been Oracles of Annihilation, which is actually a spellcaster-based theme list, but happens to allow full access to our non-character beasts, as well as providing access to free forsaken and sorceresses, which is about as close to a beast theme list as we get to have. Of our other 3 theme lists, Children of The Dragon and Ravens of War both heavily restrict the beasts we're allowed to take, while Primal Terrors allows our full beast roster like Oracles of Annihilation does, but otherwise focuses mostly on infantry (ogrun specifically).

PP reduced Legion's beast-heavy focus at the start of mk3 with nerfs to some beasts and beast support. Since the start of Mk3 they fixed a lot of the core beasts (the carni chassis, all our characters are good), but there are still a few duds scattered around the faction. Overall, we're not in an awful spot, but between the huge setbacks at the start of mk3, bad-to-average theme lists, and a lukewarm CID*, it feels rather pushed-down by PP.

I feel like they don't have any major decision-making staff who care about legion. There doesn't seem to be much inspiration or passion behind it anymore, but that's just me.

Anyways, while lots of stuff has changed for better or worse, most of it is pretty familiar. The theme list system is probably what changes legion the most from Mk2. Legion's 4 theme lists, as mentioned are roughly as follows:
-Oracles of Annihilation: As mentioned, it's sort of the working 'beast theme. Free beast support solos based on points of warbeasts taken is the main thing. The theme list itself isn't amazing, but it is an enabler for good beast-focused lists.
-Children of The Dragon: A nyss-based theme list that only allows nephilim as warbeast options. It doesn't really have a focus or niche beyond some kind of nephilim-based combined arms.
-Ravens of War: A scout/vanguard theme list based around stuff like Striders and models with flight. Only allows flying warbeasts.
-Primal Terrors: Ogrun-based theme list. Basically melee heavy infantry focus and everything they like. Powerful at what it does, since unlike CoTD, PT can take the Blightbringer to buff the infantry. Tons of durability and raw damage, and combined with a lot of the threat range and board coverage buffs that it got in the CID, it's not even very slow either. Probably our strongest theme list since it accomplishes what it sets out to do.

Generally all the theme lists have good lists, despite their drawbacks. These are usually because they might work particularly well with a specific warlock who can still run a powerful list without the models that the theme can't take. 

*CID(Community integrated Development) is part of PP's new release structure. It's essentially a system of beta testing rules with public input for a few weeks prior to the rules official release. It's also a system for errata of existing models. So, for example, we got to spend a few weeks testing the new stuff in primal terrors, as well as some buffs to some other struggling models. So the lack of cards is mostly that. Now you can download PDFs of the cards for free to print.

I disagree. I think themes are easy to build around, and if you decide to come back to the game it is a very simple way to build a competitive list. That being said playing out of theme is super viable, with plenty of people making it to the final tables in large cons without a theme. Themes in Mk.II were more restrictive if you wanted to get any benefit, so it was easier to see the cost associated with your free models and rules. I also think in theme we have a diverse set of answers to problems presented in the meta.

I think Legion is in a great place balance wise, we can run multiple archetypes that are very competitive at the highest levels. I would argue the game itself is also in a better place balance wise as well, with more active involvement from PP curbing persistent problems. Some people think they are too slow to correct a balance issue, but I appreciate them giving the meta a chance to respond to a challenge instead of taking every power spike and beating it into the dust.

I returned to the game around a year ago, and have had no problem falling back into playing.

We have lost a few of our major power spikes (Vayl2 assassination, Thags1 Arcangel revive, Saeryns flying circus), but it has been replaced by a more balanced and diverse rollout. We still have a few casters that tend to swing a skew (Fyanna), but if you look at successful lists it does not dominate.

I would recommend dipping your toes in again, I have really liked my return.

It may be better than it was at its absolute worst, but it's still nowhere near as good as it used to be in the past.

and way back before the industrial revolution there was no global warming. But the expected lifespan was 35.

Things change, some for the better some not. "We" (Legion) just aren't as good as we were at the peak of absurdity. Same case with why the Cryx community was so inconsolable at the start of MK3.

I complain (at home) every time I play a game against anything that's not Circle. (Even then I'm envious of primal and hunter's mark) Every faction has access to higher damage buffs. Better stats. More ctrl range buffs/effects. Lower point costs. Models with cards covered in special rules. and on and on... But I still do well. I can still do massive amounts of work with my seemingly below average models.

It's possible. It's just far from easy. I (like to) think Legion is a high skill floor/ceiling faction with not much room for error anymore.

But I would love to see a legit review of Nyss and about 60% of our casters. That's just not going to happen forever and a day.

I understand. But me thinks we are derailing the thread. Feel free to message me if you want to hash things out.

Overread I don't want to portray doom and gloom. The game is still fun and reasonable at a casual level. But as with all new players or returning. There's going to be a learning curve and a lot of losses in the early stages.

That is the nature of the new CID cycles. You only get new models when it's your turn for CID. We got Primal terrors so we won't be in rotation for quite some time.

The end of the year might see another cycle of "every faction gets 1 or 2 things" so that's the nearest we can hope for.

On the topic of CID, it's worth noting that CID came into play after Mk3, and they were releasing things differently prior to that. We're less than half way through the entire cycle of having a CID for every faction, and some grievances (like theoretically waiting 2-3 years for any other changes) are already emerging. PP might adjust the CID, or take a break from CID, or decide CID isn't working as a release model.