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Post by drakeraids on May 3, 2018 19:34:02 GMT
I'm going to be testing Cinerators and Zealots with Gastonne. I never had any interest in Llael with him before now, but functional Cincerators bring a lot to the list I think. Armor 24 with tough five boxes and vengeance that shield wall 4" and then Repo 3" is a whole lot of not nothing, along with bringing some Dispel. I don't know if its better than his Irregular builds but it does have enough different strengths to it that I'm interested in playing it and seeing how it goes.
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on May 3, 2018 20:46:36 GMT
i tride gastone with zealots last week. it was crap! they dont do anything! you cant have stuff that dont do anything now! This has been my initial thought/impression. Yes they have recursion and are cheap and give you souls. But you need to fill up the points in the theme with infantry that actually contribute. I currently use Idrians for my soul generation. At least before they die they're killing things between CRA and prey. I don't see the zealots doing similar work. Yes they are cheaper, but then what do I take with the zealots? After that unit then what? Devil Dogs? More 'jacks? More 'jacks means less free solos. More than willing to have someone prove me wrong, but what was said by Shoe is why I've avoided it for so long (or haven't bothered buying the models).
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Post by drakeraids on May 3, 2018 20:52:32 GMT
You can't take Idrians in Llael.
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on May 3, 2018 21:04:56 GMT
You can't take Idrians in Llael. I'm aware. I play him in Irregulars with them...
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Post by drakeraids on May 4, 2018 5:10:00 GMT
You can't take Idrians in Llael. I'm aware. I play him in Irregulars with them... Apologizes, I misread your comment in that regard, I thought you where exclusively referring to Llael.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 4, 2018 6:01:27 GMT
i tride gastone with zealots last week. it was crap! they dont do anything! you cant have stuff that dont do anything now! This has been my initial thought/impression. Yes they have recursion and are cheap and give you souls. But you need to fill up the points in the theme with infantry that actually contribute. I currently use Idrians for my soul generation. At least before they die they're killing things between CRA and prey. I don't see the zealots doing similar work. Yes they are cheaper, but then what do I take with the zealots? After that unit then what? Devil Dogs? More 'jacks? More 'jacks means less free solos. More than willing to have someone prove me wrong, but what was said by Shoe is why I've avoided it for so long (or haven't bothered buying the models). shoe is not capitalized
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Post by GrumpyBear on May 4, 2018 12:15:16 GMT
Well with Gaston, cinerators could be 24(tough) armor, vengeance, repositioning 3 while walking 4. Even a juggernaut doesn't come close to killing one with an axe hit.
They also have decent melee output. They seem decent into scenarios.
Correction Armor 24
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on May 4, 2018 13:17:53 GMT
Well with Gaston, cinerators could be 23 (tough) armor, vengeance, repositioning 3 while walking 4. Even a juggernaut doesn't come close to killing one with an axe hit. They also have decent melee output. They seem decent into scenarios. Unboosted Pow 19 vs Arm 23 5 boxes means they need to hit 9 on 2 dice. Thats....not uncommon.
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Post by GrumpyBear on May 5, 2018 2:45:27 GMT
I would take needing a hard nine to kill my guys all day
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 5, 2018 15:06:30 GMT
anything with a 9" max threat u cannot extend unless tge other guy is a dummy should be shipped off to bad idea land
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Post by GrumpyBear on May 6, 2018 3:46:30 GMT
anything with a 9" max threat u cannot extend unless tge other guy is a dummy should be shipped off to bad idea land Well the idea is they walk 7 in shield wall, have vengeance, and will be in a zone. They are gonna be tough to deal with and will punish anyone who fails to wipe them all out because of their abilities. I'd argue they are strong enough with out charging their walk aND hit could even do work. I'm not saying is the best unit ever, but it's not the worst either.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 6, 2018 7:05:09 GMT
anything with a 9" max threat u cannot extend unless tge other guy is a dummy should be shipped off to bad idea land Well the idea is they walk 7 in shield wall, have vengeance, and will be in a zone. They are gonna be tough to deal with and will punish anyone who fails to wipe them all out because of their abilities. I'd argue they are strong enough with out charging their walk aND hit could even do work. I'm not saying is the best unit ever, but it's not the worst either. nope. not tough to deal with at all. feed them chaff then send in the heavy hitting alpha now if there was more to lalalese resistance to flesh it out besides devil doggos...
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Fang
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by Fang on May 7, 2018 13:27:17 GMT
I did some quick 25 point battles for the CID. At that point level, Gastone2 + Cinerators were pretty nifty but I dunno if they will hold up for a full sized game. The zealots did nothing offensively but shielded the cinerators and such nicely while dieing like crazy to fuel Gastone2 who was able to rampage to his heart's content that game.
They were slow af though, I didn't even get them halfway across the board before they were being charged. On the other hand, with 24 armor they didn't really care much about the charges unless it was from weapon masters or jacks. And the more (wm) infantry the enemy brings, the more souls Gastone can munch on I guess.
With Ashlynn on the other hand, meh. I had fun with them playing into cryx (still 25point), choir (instead of zealots) protected my jacks against debuffs a bit. I lost the cinerator officer fairly early after which they just kinda died off.
They're either very tough but super slow or Kinda tough but average speed between Ashlynn and Gastone. (Caine3 and MACBAIN!!! not doing anything for them). I can see myself playing Cinerators+zealots on Gastone2 in a future test game, but will probably be trying something else with Ashlynn. They do help fill out the points in LR though.
But as shoe mentioned, if LR had a bit more native options dot dot dot
(I do feel that cinerators are better than our multiwound units and shield wall units for what it is worth ;P)
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on May 7, 2018 14:08:57 GMT
I would take needing a hard nine to kill my guys all day I'm not saying it's not good, I'm just saying that "Even a juggernaut doesn't come close to killing one with an axe hit." isn't really an accurate, especially when even powerup gives it two options for turning that into 3 dice. now if there was more to lalalese resistance to flesh it out besides devil doggos... I think this is true for all of the units that aren't really self sufficient and is the biggest problem with the vast majority of units that can be taken in LR. Most units aren't the entire backbone for their force, but as none of the casters in LR are great battlegroup casters, it comes down to the units taken without the benefit of the "fixes" that come in faction.
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Post by GrumpyBear on May 10, 2018 0:33:16 GMT
Well with Gaston, cinerators could be 24(tough) armor, vengeance, repositioning 3 while walking 4. Even a juggernaut doesn't come close to killing one with an axe hit. They also have decent melee output. They seem decent into scenarios. Correction Armor 24 AAAAAAAAAND Now they can charge, go into shield wall, and reposition 5 all in the same turn. Oh yeah.
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