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Post by tiberius on May 2, 2018 18:03:58 GMT
So two things, I understand why they are focusing the warcaster's abilities on exemplars but I think it makes her too narrow of a niche as you would only ever take her with exemplars and in this theme. Other than that, she looks really solid and if they turn the word exemplar into warrior model, I think I would really like her.
The second is the temple relying on things dying to do any work. Sure it gets its gun, but you are placing this thing maybe 18" forward with a 14" reach. Is that enough to have the board presence? The soul gathering is in 10" of it, so you are barely over the center of the board, especially if you go first. Once your exemplars leave that area, its resources lost for the temple. I think I would rather it have some ability like Skarre's reinforcements ability where you just pump out D3 dudes every round and if you have a soul, you can spend it for some effect.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 2, 2018 18:15:15 GMT
First, I'm fine with a Warcaster favoring a specific section of the faction. Main factions are getting really big. If we're going to continue to receive compelling options that aren't just overlaps, we have to get specific.
I have the same issues regarding the Shrine, but they are untested gut checks.
BTW, playing Cyrenia right now. She is silly fun. I love having options.
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Miafan
Junior Strategist
Eater of Brains
Posts: 130
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Post by Miafan on May 2, 2018 18:30:40 GMT
I was driving when my friend called me and told me about the spectacular Kreoss2 fix (with a HUGE spoonful of snark), I almost crashed my car. This is not even stupid, it's a new level of derision. Faction's most disabled caster for god knows how many years, he needs comlete rewrite of his abilities and spell list. In other faction (Legion, etc) PP saw no problem with it. In PoM? Heck, lets buff his MAT and CMD, it'll fix all problems.
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Post by chillychinaman on May 2, 2018 18:34:27 GMT
The second is the temple relying on things dying to do any work. Sure it gets its gun, but you are placing this thing maybe 18" forward with a 14" reach. Is that enough to have the board presence? The soul gathering is in 10" of it, so you are barely over the center of the board, especially if you go first. Once your exemplars leave that area, its resources lost for the temple. I think I would rather it have some ability like Skarre's reinforcements ability where you just pump out D3 dudes every round and if you have a soul, you can spend it for some effect. I guess that's why Hand of Silence has Direct Spirits? 21pts seems pretty steep for what should be baseline functionality. I second an earlier suggestion to add a *action to gain some souls.
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Post by gargs454 on May 2, 2018 18:39:53 GMT
Yeah I don't really mind warcasters being pretty focused on a particular role. I think, at least in theory, it provides for a wider variety of options when building lists. #Designspace in other words.
Anyhoo, my initial impressions (obviously not tested yet):
Cyrenia -- Very solid. Not earth shattering but will run Exemplars really well. Hand of Silence -- I think he's ok, but not really sure if he'll do enough to justify inclusion -- needs testing. Warder -- Personally, not real sold on him. Shrine -- Seems cool, but I always worry about such a stationary model. Range of abilities seem to be a bit low. Cinny Officer -- I love take down on him, and I think that with the other changes we are seeing, Cinnies could be pretty good right now. Only question is the cost. I still think that they could go for a point reduction either in the unit or the officer. Problem is the officer is pretty much mandatory for the unit as the unit on its own is still very underwhelming in my opinion and anything that can make the unit shine will also make other, much better options shine as well. Bastions -- Now they'll do nothing but for fewer points. Again a potential problem that may come up in testing is that if running everything here, the Bastions might seem decent because exemplars got a lot of love, but the bastions won't do anything that another unit couldn't do better (and often for less). Errants -- Yay! They are perfect now (imho). FoS -- Sure, I'll take a buff. Judy -- Nice buffs. Still not sure if she finds a place over Rev, but I think its a better question now.
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Post by tiberius on May 2, 2018 18:43:40 GMT
As a cryx player, the hand of silence will be target numero uno to kill for most of my lists. Especially any list that relies on souls like Terminus or any of the asphyxious's.
Cinerators with shield wall, vengeance and reposition seem really good to me.
That body guard guy seems really solid, he has one job and appears to do it really well.
I agree that bastions still need some love.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on May 2, 2018 18:45:46 GMT
I was driving when my friend called me and told me about the spectacular Kreoss2 fix (with a HUGE spoonful of snark), I almost crashed my car. This is not even stupid, it's a new level of derision. Faction's most disabled caster for god knows how many years, he needs comlete rewrite of his abilities and spell list. In other faction (Legion, etc) PP saw no problem with it. In PoM? Heck, lets buff his MAT and CMD, it'll fix all problems. You should play him a lot and post battle reports that demonstrate his shortcomings.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 2, 2018 19:17:20 GMT
I was driving when my friend called me and told me about the spectacular Kreoss2 fix (with a HUGE spoonful of snark), I almost crashed my car. This is not even stupid, it's a new level of derision. Faction's most disabled caster for god knows how many years, he needs comlete rewrite of his abilities and spell list. In other faction (Legion, etc) PP saw no problem with it. In PoM? Heck, lets buff his MAT and CMD, it'll fix all problems. Your friend probably should have also told you that they specifically said that they recognize he has shortcomings and want playtest games first to determine what direction they should take him, given the other models that have been retooled and released. He's not done at all and pretending that he is does nobody any service.
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Post by chillychinaman on May 2, 2018 19:19:01 GMT
As a cryx player, the hand of silence will be target numero uno to kill for most of my lists. Especially any list that relies on souls like Terminus or any of the asphyxious's. Cinerators with shield wall, vengeance and reposition seem really good to me. That body guard guy seems really solid, he has one job and appears to do it really well. I agree that bastions still need some love. I think the problem with Cinterators is that would anyone want to attack, but not kill, a ARM21/23 unit with vengeance and reposition? I think Shield wall actually hurts them in this case. at ARM19/21 enough stuff would get through to seriously ping or kill a few of them, giving them ample opportunity to take advantage of the vengeance. As for Silence, I want to try running him with Vengers to unjam and guard their souls. Maybe run some jacks to take advantage of Grave Resonance. On paper it makes for a fairly self-sufficient, albeit expensive, module.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 2, 2018 19:21:29 GMT
Hex blast everywhere all of a sudden... Must be PP's flavor-of-the-month
Also, the house of rising weapon masters is dumb. Up to 3 medium based infantry models a turn? I think that is pretty significant with Sanguine bond and anything that could heal bastions. The forward models could soak another 15 points of damage to get where ever they wanted. "Yep, I'ma just eat that counter charge and keep on swinging". As well as them getting cheaper. They are slow but Desperate pace can now help. I don't really see bastions being too bad. Innate speed 5 would be respectable. But little huh-man limbs in heavy armor doesn't go very fast.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 2, 2018 19:47:07 GMT
Am I the only one that is bummed in the change to the Bastion Seneschal? Yes, his new Drive is awesome, but I *really* liked his old one. That kind of protection on one of our jacks seems really good still. The new Drive just seems like silly overkill.
EDIT: OMG, I finally get to log on and this thread is massive! Glad to see all the attention!
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on May 2, 2018 19:55:24 GMT
So two things, I understand why they are focusing the warcaster's abilities on exemplars but I think it makes her too narrow of a niche as you would only ever take her with exemplars and in this theme. Other than that, she looks really solid and if they turn the word exemplar into warrior model, I think I would really like her. The second is the temple relying on things dying to do any work. Sure it gets its gun, but you are placing this thing maybe 18" forward with a 14" reach. Is that enough to have the board presence? The soul gathering is in 10" of it, so you are barely over the center of the board, especially if you go first. Once your exemplars leave that area, its resources lost for the temple. I think I would rather it have some ability like Skarre's reinforcements ability where you just pump out D3 dudes every round and if you have a soul, you can spend it for some effect. Yeah the temple seems nice at first glance, but then you start thinking how other things like the Trencher blockhouse or Skarre 3 just get to return guys without also requiring spending souls Here you are trading 3 guys for returning 1 guy vs being able to divert that power into shooting I either think there should be a 5 soul cap instead, or instead pay 1 soul for 1 guy, but limit to once per turn
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Post by tiberius on May 2, 2018 20:00:21 GMT
They could also do it like the Sepulcher does corpses, 1 for 1 for small based exemplars, 1 for 3 for a medium based exemplar. But really, I think it would be better if it had, as someone mentioned earlier, an auto-soul gaining ability, or just get the reinforcements. You are currently paying 14 points for a stationary building with a single gun and no reliable ways of boosting or gaining souls unless you take a lot of dudes and the hand of silence, and even then, his range is the same as the blockhouse, and all he can do is redirect. I don't think he can actually pass if the target is not eligible for the soul due to distance. Correct me if I am wrong. Now if he is like the soul takers in Cryx, where he can gather and redistribute them, that is different.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on May 2, 2018 20:06:01 GMT
Yeah the temple seems nice at first glance, but then you start thinking how other things like the Trencher blockhouse or Skarre 3 just get to return guys without also requiring spending souls Here you are trading 3 guys for returning 1 guy vs being able to divert that power into shooting I either think there should be a 5 soul cap instead, or instead pay 1 soul for 1 guy, but limit to once per turn During your Maintenance Phase, you can remove up to three soul tokens from this model to return one destroyed small- or medium-based friendly Faction Grunt to play for each token removed.
3 souls = 3 dudes
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on May 2, 2018 20:14:20 GMT
Sorry, I misread that. That's decent actually
On the other hand, I think i would rather hand out Ghostly to 3 models like warjacks or paladins etc... in the Faithful masses theme, or give it out to models like Gravuus or KE Senescahl etc...
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