Post by harrysan on Apr 29, 2018 16:05:45 GMT
So once I finally updated all my lists that were now 2-4 points over (RIP Juggernaut and Marauder), I sat down and looked at what I wanted to do with our new shiny toys. I've always loved MOW since I first got into Khador. I generally don't play that often and it's generally in tournaments, so I've always been focused on competitive play and my MOW sat on the shelf.
Sorscha3 is an obvious choice, and that is already being discussed. As I read through War Room looking for synergy (or Skornergy...) I was struck by Malakov2. I was not a huge fan of ol' Andrei when he was released. His feat felt too limiting and he felt like he was missing one more spell from his card.
Well would you look at that, with the Dynamic Update his feat got amazing and he got one more spell. The new feat really wants to leverage multi-wound models because, well, you can't Enliven away if you're dead. What I came up with is below:
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0TgykWkW7s8pl5l5l3l38686l2l7l17Qgd
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army contains pre-release entries.
(Malakov 2) Kommander Andrei Malakov [+28]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Kodiak [13]
Man-O-War Drakhun [9]
Man-O-War Kovnik [4]
Man-O-War Kovnik [4]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7]
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14]
- Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
I feel like one of the biggest "weaknesses" of Armored Corps lists is that they are all pretty similar. Kovniks are pretty much auto include but the points drop makes that not feel too bad.
I've got the double Juggernaut because Andy still lacks a good damage buff and A+H+V is pretty expensive with all the other support bloat MOWs need. Most of my lists included at least 1 Kodiak because I've found the utility they provide is often the difference in clearing those last few models to allow a scenario victory (or at least stop a scenario loss). Additionally, Escort and Heavy Boiler are letting a Kodiak run just as far as normal 'jacks!
The Shocktroopers are meant to get Tactical Supremacy, get yelled at by a Kovnik to march faster, and Shield Wall up the board. Super boring, but if it ain't broke why fix it. Suppression Tankers trundle up the board and unjam as necessary and probably sit on a flag or in the corner of a zone. Drakhun threatens whatever needs threatening from a Counter Charge, most likely somewhere around the Shocktroopers. Atanas runs around and probably hands out Tough at the beginning just in case. Battle Mechs are included for 2 reasons: 2 more Advance Moves, and to be Sucker! targets for Malakov. For the plans I have for this list, Andrei will probably need to play relatively forward, wouldn't want to die to a random assassination attempt.
The real thing that got me interested in trying this out is the new Demo Corps. Overall I like what Dragos adds to the unit, although I don't see it being worth it unless he's one of the free models. But with Malakov2 under feat, we have the following scenario:
-Malakov positions so his feat will hit where ever the Demo Corps need to wind up as the scenario dictates. He feats. If focus allows drop a Veil of Mists where the Demo Corps will be as well. If Andy is pretty safe where he is and doesn't need Prowl, throw Backstab on the Demo Corps (See Option 2 Below).
-Demo Crops activate, probably charge in and whack some stuff, Dragos minifeats. Ideally they should be pretty far forward to project threat so if the opponent just backs off then they lose on scenario.
-Atanas huffs and puffs his fat ass over and gives the unit Retaliatory Strike. Ideally at max range so he doesn't die.
Now it's the opponent's turn. They have a tough challenge:
-They hit a Demo Corps model. Retaliatory Strike triggers (hit by enemy attack).
-They most likely do some damage since the Demo Corps are still only ARM 16. Thanks to Bond of Brotherhood, we will spread that damage out so no one dies. Feat and Vengeance both trigger (damaged by enemy attack).
-So now the attack has resolved. We have both Retaliatory Strike and Feat to trigger. You may think, "Wait, I thought effects that don't produce an attack trigger before those that do. Doesn't that mean you lose your Retaliatory Strike attack if you want to move out of melee?" That was exactly what I thought. But, if we go to the Timing Chart in the Rulebook we have: ACTIVE player effects triggered by attack resolution that don't generate an attack -> INACTIVE player effects triggered by attack resolution (no qualifier) -> ACTIVE player effects triggered by attack resolution that generate an attack. So they both happen at the same step, and as the controlling player for those effects, we can choose which order.
OPTION 1
-Whack whatever just hit you with an attack. Maybe you'll get lucky and get a Crit Freeze off which will be a bonus, but if not it's no big deal.
-Take your feat move out melee, preferably a location where no other models can get to you.
-On your turn, you now get to Vengeance forward and whack that model again.
-Activate again, whack that model again if it's still alive or go for new targets.
-OR-
OPTION 2
-Using Tactician and/or Veil of Mists, move out the attacker's melee range and into their back arc.
-Hopefully with Backstab on you, take your Retaliatory Strike attack in your opponent's back arc.
-If you survive, Vengeance and attack.
-Activate again as above.
I realize the above "Living the Dream(TM)" scenario with every model will be difficult. Obviously, your opponent can chose to ignore the Demo Corps and back off. Depending on what is threatening the Demo Corps, the minifeat may not be necessary. You will ideally also have Shocktroopers, Drakhun, and Tankers in the feat as well, so they will have similar issues if they ignore them, and they still have Demo Corps threatening.
Wow, that is a wall of text. I'm hoping to test the above out soon, but at least it has gotten me excited about MOW and Malakov2 finally.
Sorscha3 is an obvious choice, and that is already being discussed. As I read through War Room looking for synergy (or Skornergy...) I was struck by Malakov2. I was not a huge fan of ol' Andrei when he was released. His feat felt too limiting and he felt like he was missing one more spell from his card.
Well would you look at that, with the Dynamic Update his feat got amazing and he got one more spell. The new feat really wants to leverage multi-wound models because, well, you can't Enliven away if you're dead. What I came up with is below:
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0TgykWkW7s8pl5l5l3l38686l2l7l17Qgd
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army contains pre-release entries.
(Malakov 2) Kommander Andrei Malakov [+28]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Kodiak [13]
Man-O-War Drakhun [9]
Man-O-War Kovnik [4]
Man-O-War Kovnik [4]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7]
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14]
- Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
I feel like one of the biggest "weaknesses" of Armored Corps lists is that they are all pretty similar. Kovniks are pretty much auto include but the points drop makes that not feel too bad.
I've got the double Juggernaut because Andy still lacks a good damage buff and A+H+V is pretty expensive with all the other support bloat MOWs need. Most of my lists included at least 1 Kodiak because I've found the utility they provide is often the difference in clearing those last few models to allow a scenario victory (or at least stop a scenario loss). Additionally, Escort and Heavy Boiler are letting a Kodiak run just as far as normal 'jacks!
The Shocktroopers are meant to get Tactical Supremacy, get yelled at by a Kovnik to march faster, and Shield Wall up the board. Super boring, but if it ain't broke why fix it. Suppression Tankers trundle up the board and unjam as necessary and probably sit on a flag or in the corner of a zone. Drakhun threatens whatever needs threatening from a Counter Charge, most likely somewhere around the Shocktroopers. Atanas runs around and probably hands out Tough at the beginning just in case. Battle Mechs are included for 2 reasons: 2 more Advance Moves, and to be Sucker! targets for Malakov. For the plans I have for this list, Andrei will probably need to play relatively forward, wouldn't want to die to a random assassination attempt.
The real thing that got me interested in trying this out is the new Demo Corps. Overall I like what Dragos adds to the unit, although I don't see it being worth it unless he's one of the free models. But with Malakov2 under feat, we have the following scenario:
-Malakov positions so his feat will hit where ever the Demo Corps need to wind up as the scenario dictates. He feats. If focus allows drop a Veil of Mists where the Demo Corps will be as well. If Andy is pretty safe where he is and doesn't need Prowl, throw Backstab on the Demo Corps (See Option 2 Below).
-Demo Crops activate, probably charge in and whack some stuff, Dragos minifeats. Ideally they should be pretty far forward to project threat so if the opponent just backs off then they lose on scenario.
-Atanas huffs and puffs his fat ass over and gives the unit Retaliatory Strike. Ideally at max range so he doesn't die.
Now it's the opponent's turn. They have a tough challenge:
-They hit a Demo Corps model. Retaliatory Strike triggers (hit by enemy attack).
-They most likely do some damage since the Demo Corps are still only ARM 16. Thanks to Bond of Brotherhood, we will spread that damage out so no one dies. Feat and Vengeance both trigger (damaged by enemy attack).
-So now the attack has resolved. We have both Retaliatory Strike and Feat to trigger. You may think, "Wait, I thought effects that don't produce an attack trigger before those that do. Doesn't that mean you lose your Retaliatory Strike attack if you want to move out of melee?" That was exactly what I thought. But, if we go to the Timing Chart in the Rulebook we have: ACTIVE player effects triggered by attack resolution that don't generate an attack -> INACTIVE player effects triggered by attack resolution (no qualifier) -> ACTIVE player effects triggered by attack resolution that generate an attack. So they both happen at the same step, and as the controlling player for those effects, we can choose which order.
OPTION 1
-Whack whatever just hit you with an attack. Maybe you'll get lucky and get a Crit Freeze off which will be a bonus, but if not it's no big deal.
-Take your feat move out melee, preferably a location where no other models can get to you.
-On your turn, you now get to Vengeance forward and whack that model again.
-Activate again, whack that model again if it's still alive or go for new targets.
-OR-
OPTION 2
-Using Tactician and/or Veil of Mists, move out the attacker's melee range and into their back arc.
-Hopefully with Backstab on you, take your Retaliatory Strike attack in your opponent's back arc.
-If you survive, Vengeance and attack.
-Activate again as above.
I realize the above "Living the Dream(TM)" scenario with every model will be difficult. Obviously, your opponent can chose to ignore the Demo Corps and back off. Depending on what is threatening the Demo Corps, the minifeat may not be necessary. You will ideally also have Shocktroopers, Drakhun, and Tankers in the feat as well, so they will have similar issues if they ignore them, and they still have Demo Corps threatening.
Wow, that is a wall of text. I'm hoping to test the above out soon, but at least it has gotten me excited about MOW and Malakov2 finally.