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Post by jagius021 on Apr 26, 2018 13:30:38 GMT
I have a siege 2 list that I have been having more fun with than probably any single army since mk2. I have ragman and a&h w/Murdoch in it, and ragman does tons of work. However, the unit doesn't feel up to snuff. Sometimes they feel great, other times just sort of meh, and sometimes I feel like 12 points of anything would be better. What are your experiences? I mean, siege already has a lot of buffs in the list, with fury, ragman, and commando mini feat. It sort of feels like I'm playing skorne with all the support bloat. However, I do know that we need more magical weapons, but I honestly don't see a lot of incorp in my meta.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 26, 2018 13:39:04 GMT
It's nice that Murdoch counts towards free points, unlike to Heavy Metal and Storm Division. If you just want a damage buff then reach for Ragman first like you said, however if your Siege 2 list is to be your Grymkin drop, then Aiyana and Holt are pretty much mandatory, otherwise the Gremlin Swarms will ruin your life
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Post by streetpizza on Apr 26, 2018 13:51:07 GMT
Are you intending to take this list to any larger tournament or is only for local play? If its only for local play then the easy answer is to play without them and see if you miss what they were offering you. You already have the baseline established with them included to compare against so why not iterate and see where innovation takes you? Come back here after and share the wisdom you gain  |
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578 
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Post by Juris on Apr 26, 2018 15:47:28 GMT
I have a siege 2 list that I have been having more fun with than probably any single army since mk2. I have ragman and a&h w/Murdoch in it, and ragman does tons of work. However, the unit doesn't feel up to snuff. Sometimes they feel great, other times just sort of meh, and sometimes I feel like 12 points of anything would be better. What are your experiences? I mean, siege already has a lot of buffs in the list, with fury, ragman, and commando mini feat. It sort of feels like I'm playing skorne with all the support bloat. However, I do know that we need more magical weapons, but I honestly don't see a lot of incorp in my meta. Aiyana and Holt with Murdoch and Ragman are key elements of my Siege2 list. The difference between having only Ragman an Fury, and having Kiss of Lyliss as well, is that Kiss turns all of your guns into a serious threat. Also, you can play a game where a few models hit very, very hard against a single target, and in most games Holt does good work independently of Aiyana's value. It's also worth noting that Ragman often gets one turn of delivery, whereas Aiyana can have multiple, especially when you can protect her with Dig-in and a hill if need be. Finally, in those games where you absolutely need magical weapons, you lose without them. In short, I feel like they are an almost indispensable part of a good Siege2 list. |
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Post by jagius021 on Apr 26, 2018 19:07:02 GMT
Thanks for the insight folks! I'll test a game or two without, just to see how I feel missing them. I may also need to watch a bat rep to make sure I'm utilizing them to their full potential. I do plan on eventually going to a tourney, but I have to figure out pairings. Right now it's Stryker 2 and siege 2. and the more I play siege, the more I like him.
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luckgod84
Junior Strategist
Cygnar blogger
Posts: 163
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Post by luckgod84 on Apr 26, 2018 20:40:32 GMT
I personally feel they cost way too much to be worthwhile especially as a savvy opponent only has to kill either murdoch or aiyanna to make your 12 points become dead weight.
I much prefer to just bring 12 points of models that do work and make attacks instead
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Post by geo67 on Apr 27, 2018 13:44:23 GMT
I personally feel they cost way too much to be worthwhile especially as a savvy opponent only has to kill either murdoch or aiyanna to make your 12 points become dead weight. I much prefer to just bring 12 points of models that do work and make attacks instead I see them doing work, but yeah, any player that knows the game will target Murdoch, and pretty much nullify the unit. |
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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 27, 2018 14:07:56 GMT
I dunno, was going to try them in a H£ gravediggers list no commandos, for extra cracking, but i'm not sure about it.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Apr 27, 2018 16:14:22 GMT
I personally feel they cost way too much to be worthwhile especially as a savvy opponent only has to kill either murdoch or aiyanna to make your 12 points become dead weight. I much prefer to just bring 12 points of models that do work and make attacks instead I see them doing work, but yeah, any player that knows the game will target Murdoch, and pretty much nullify the unit. It's actually extremely difficult to get to Murdoch if you play them correctly. His command is 9, and Aiyana threats a Kiss from 19" away with Siege as long as you have your feat. They can be very far back. Even if your opponent does get attacks in range, he can easily be DEF17 (from GoToGround one turn and feat otherwise), or even 19 from being on a hill as well. Also, a good Siege2 list presents many high priority targets, so your opponent has to choose; if they choose Aiyana/Murdoch instead of something else, that can be a boon for your as well. Lastly, even if they kill Murdoch, you still have a unit that can put out 2 POW14's on a target with high accuracy, that can score zones and be difficult to kill, and that can give magical weapon to a model/unit if needed. |
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Post by jagius021 on Apr 30, 2018 17:40:50 GMT
I modified the list a bit and took out aiyana and holt with Murdoch, swapping points and solos and such around to have another express team, master Gunner, and some chain gun crew (wouldn't want an unlucky shot to kill the troll and leave the master Gunner sad like that)
I ended up against my buddy's sorcha 3 manowar list. This, of all things, I think I'd want the damage buff with. It was a hard slugfest with the express teams barely denting the maniwars (but at least they couldnt repair!) And the chain gun covering fire a mild nuisance. However, commandos did plenty of work as is with ragman and minifeat. Triumph was a freaking all-star, able to see through her cloud wall she put up. The blockhouse creates some excellent attrition and that gun immobilized sorcha pretty well. In the end his assassination attempt on me was botched (missing a boosted charge attack...awkward. then missing 3 more attacks....super awkward.
In the end, I think I like aiyana and holt and will keep them in. I really like double express team though, so they have to stay as well.
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