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Post by allinontrolls on Apr 25, 2018 11:04:38 GMT
Hello Trolls,
we are playing a lot of list centered around Champions either with Madrak1, Kolgrima or other casters. Sometimes we build them in BoH sometimes in SotN. In my opionon all these list have really similar weakneses. Like Fire , Calamity, Mortality... first thinks out of my head.
To find a partner to handle this i am either thinking about a Pod build but i think pod really strugles in szenario play.
My new idea is kind of an old one playing a Madrak2 list with a lot of single wound infatry.
Perhaps my troll buddies have some nice ideas too.
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Post by deviantcad on Apr 25, 2018 13:23:37 GMT
This is the same topic I've been thinking on. I've been really happy with my Mad1 list. I think in a vacume SotN is stronger but the utility of BoH wins out. So the question becomes what to pair it with. PoD seems like the obvious choice but then you have to factor in there are some senarios that it is just not going to do well in.
I've been looking at Doomy3/Kolgrima/Bearka in in PoD as a pairing. Of the three I think Bearka might handle spreading out the best. I know his control ranged is short, but he can take a light or two and send them pretty far to the side with primal and they are pretty much gone after that anyway. Counter charges helps protect the sides as well.
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Post by allinontrolls on Apr 25, 2018 15:51:32 GMT
As players getting better at scenario play the downfall of Pod list begun in my opinion. First of Pod list center around 4-5 beasts (Mulg,Mauler,EBDT,Bomber,(Rok?!)) , some lights and some support stuff. SR18 seems to be even faster then SR17 i am not very optimistic that PoD lists will be the way to go. The Dutch Masters were won by a troll player playing M1 BoH and Grim2. This could be an option. Mortality seems better and better vs Champs,Chosen,MOW and the new faction. Another option would be Madrak2. Blood Fury on any of our new units seems really strong. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0G4X0r0jjqj66Gj20ki-6liZiZezezj5Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North (Madrak 2) Madrak Ironhide, World Ender [+28] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [3] Long Riders (min) [12] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] 2 Battle Bears would do 45 boxes vs arm 20 with blood fury. This could crack armor for days. |
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Apr 25, 2018 16:45:36 GMT
What about Grim2? I was thinking about a scenario rush list using Grim2, 2 units of Northkin Raiders and a full unit of Long Riders OR 2x Battle Bears OR min Long Riders + 1x Battle Bears.
Reason is that Grim2 is a good answer for the mirror match. That way Linus and Edrea should join the party too.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656 
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 25, 2018 19:50:28 GMT
I chatted about this in the Madrak1 dojo thread but in addition to the stuff you listed, fully boostable sprays are a problem as well. That means Ossrum flavors of Mercenaries as well as CoC will be an issue.
TBH the natural answer seems to be either Kolgrima or Gunnbjorn. I feel pretty good about Kolgrima into most things at the moment, but could easily move over to Gunny if the meta has less blast immune / shield guard.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 25, 2018 20:19:20 GMT
I chatted about this in the Madrak1 dojo thread but in addition to the stuff you listed, fully boostable sprays are a problem as well. That means Ossrum flavors of Mercenaries as well as CoC will be an issue. TBH the natural answer seems to be either Kolgrima or Gunnbjorn. I feel pretty good about Kolgrima into most things at the moment, but could easily move over to Gunny if the meta has less blast immune / shield guard. Curious as to your approach to Ossrum. I played into him recently with exemplar and was promptly wrecked. Watching Knights Exemplar Bounce off jacks on feat turn and his stupid spray bunnies kill an absurd amount of infantry even with spacing. (bulldoze and speed 8 is awful) I was thinking this would also be an issue for trolls due to the efficiency and Accuracy of the bunny sprays as well as chewing through a bunch of arm 20+ jacks. Are the Bunny sprays and such really that threatening to the 14/18 champs? I was thinking the troll answer to Ossrum would possibly be similar to the Protectorate answer in Generic list construction and application. |
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 25, 2018 21:02:26 GMT
The problem is the bunnies hit first really reliably and he should be able to set up A+H support as well. Combine Idrians with Prey, Fire for Effect Artillery, Alten Ashley Grievous and all the ranged chip I'm fairly certain it would end badly. That said I'd have to see it on the table to know for sure, and I didn't want to gamble on my gut reaction being wrong in a masters' tournament.
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Post by allinontrolls on Apr 25, 2018 21:24:08 GMT
Perhaps it depends on your build of which matchups are problematic. I run my madrak1 list in boh with fennblades as a screening unit which really help to deliver champs. Cause playing the old stone fire is not a main problem. I am running 3 warders at the moment as a test and I am really happy playing them.
Talking to friends of mine Siege could be a big problem. Mortality and stuff removing tough should be also a problem.
I am not sure how much armor this list is able to crack.
That's why I thought about madrak2.
My current madrak1 build:
Bomber
Mauler
Runbearer
Max stone sse
Max champs skaldi
Fennblades ua
Min warders
Min long riders
Fell caller
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 26, 2018 3:31:38 GMT
Sorry, I'm not sure I follow. You want to run that Madrak2 list into Ossrum? Because that looks like a slaughter.
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Post by allinontrolls on Apr 26, 2018 5:20:49 GMT
Sorry the list I posted is my current madrak1 build.
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Post by allinontrolls on Apr 26, 2018 17:48:05 GMT
After rereading Gnerds Threads about Kolgrima and Madrak i am really unsure what i would like to play currently. Perhaps i can update you on my thought processes.
What i expect on the oppsite site currently and in future:
Cygnar:
Nemo3(till nerf)/ Haley3 / Siege
Menoth:
Harby / x
Khador:
probably their new stuff in theme
Cryx:
Slayer spam/ Skarre1 DH / their new theme force
Ret:
Rahn / x
Mercs:
Ossrum
Coc:
...
Circle:
Krüeger2 / Una2 / Bradigus
Skorne:
Funline / X
Legion:
Primal Terror
Minions:
Maelok
Grymkin:
probably a DM
Even with Nemo3 probably fading away their will be a still a lot of shooting. Cygnar/Ret/Mercs/COC/Skorne... this should ask for a warlock like Gunny or Kolgrima.
To build a Gunny list it would be in POD with either MK or GK or a Kolgrima list in Pod or perhaps SoTN. I am interested in testing a Kolgrima SoTN if it s not too fast + feat for gunlines. Main drawback for a Kolgrima SoTN list would be that both lists center around Champs and Mealok and Siege would be really happy to face your pairing.
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Post by danks on Apr 26, 2018 18:31:21 GMT
Borka2 SotN pairs really well with Madrak boh with champions and solves a ton of his weaknesses including shooting.
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Post by allinontrolls on Apr 26, 2018 18:33:32 GMT
can you give a bit more details of how you would build Borka2 in SoTN and secondly why u think that this solves Madraks weaknesses
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Post by danks on Apr 26, 2018 18:46:03 GMT
I hate typing (particularly on my phone at work) so you can find my lists on dgi tournaments from both lvo and soo top 8. Chris Dancocks.
Essentially, borka in SotN is super fast and due to the feat counters most shooting lists. Even with some access to eyeless sight or guidance, mass stealth can be a problem. Borka is up in your face, forcing the opponent to make choices and moves early or lose on scenario or assassination. Madrak in boh, particularly in my list, wants to play a slow, purposeful game where I’m going to utilize the attritional advantage from even ground and feat to slowly grind out a turn 6 or 7 win.
I wouldn’t pair Madrak (again assuming my list) with any pod build as it’s not fast enough to play a long scenario game, particularly on live spread out scenarios like spread the net.
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Post by danks on Apr 26, 2018 18:57:53 GMT
I should also indicate that from an attrition stand point, I’ve found very few non-shooting lists in the game that can go toe to toe with Madrak over the course of a game and the lists I have found are typically not in tournament pairings anyways. Again, outside of shooting, Madraks weakness is scenario. Borka SotN solves that in spades.
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