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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 24, 2018 12:10:37 GMT
So I'm going to a SR event and I've completely given up on trying to deal with armor head on.
I don't particularly need to go over that I can. I do just fine 90% of the time.
But I'm over thinking everything right now to the point of insanity. I know how I deal with armor but now that I actually want to participate in the tournament scene everything just feels like it's out of my grasp because I can't cover everything. (Which I shouldn't be able to do. It's called balance)
So very long story not so short... I have NEVER played Vayl 2. In MK2 or 3. I've just used her model as a proxy for testing out Vayl 1 (failures). But I want to try and put her in as my second list. I think the speed and board coverage of running all beasts in Primal Terrors is hilarious. But I think I'd really like to have a throne with her due to chain weapon rules (engage at 4" during combat. then it drops back to 2" so it's not engaged to be an arc node). BFS also sit in Oracles or CotD which I think would make a huge difference.
I just don't know. He feat gains a little by the animi I take but other than snipe I'm not seeing anything pivotal.
I do really believe I need the caster pressure she can bring. Add on top the speed with BC (I always thought it was an upkeep. My stupidity has been corrected). She still won't be dropping khador jacks but I should be able to keep them out of scenario and hopefully land some assassinations before the armor beats me on attrition.
So please, teach me what you know about Vayl 2 and what you think pairs the best with her. I've got about 3 weeks before the SR. If I can't really nail down Vayl I can always just fall back into the originally planned Thagrosh 2 (or even Bethayne) who will deal with armor a lot more directly.
Thanks in advance.
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Post by copperflame on Apr 24, 2018 13:51:24 GMT
I'm not sure I can offer much - but I'll cover how I like to run my V2. I like V2 with double throne, double ice witches, double bloodseers (one strike force on either side of the table) - with a Carnivean, Seraph and V2 in the center. I believe I have the points for a Bolt Thrower but I'd have to check if I had to squeeze that down to a Naga. My goal is to maximize V2's threat range. If the opponent does not sufficiently cover the caster, V2 arching through the thrones can just win. Most people see that coming (or I openly warn them). A hidden gem is Seraph + Apparition + eyeless sight + flight really does make for a sneaky archnode as well that I like to use. If the player is prepared for the assassination by clumping together, then the Throne + Bloodseer really starts to shine with numerous, high accurate strikes. If they are clumped together sufficiently, then the rarely used Ice Witch spray can even be a factor (this has been more of a dream than a reality for me so far  ) I use the Carnivean mostly as a tank. This is where I've lost more of my games... There is only so much damage the guy can take and the tactic does encourage the opposing player to funnel inward. If the board had favorable terrain, then I am much more successful but this is sometimes not possible. My own poor playing has a factor also but maybe you can gleam some tidbits that you can find useful. |
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Post by piedpiperwtf on Apr 24, 2018 16:05:24 GMT
Abby1.... carni advances and throws a heavy into a Blight field and knocks two lights in the field down.....they have to sacrifice there movement or action to stand up warrior/jack/beast alike since they can't be forced. How I dealt with a horgle list this past Thursday when my carni sprays we're useless. It was only a 35 point game but the effect stays the same. Also knocked down enemies don't contest zones if I'm not mistaken. Here'sist I ran.
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - New Army
Theme: Oracles of Annihilation
1 / 1 Free Cards 35 / 35 Army
Absylonia, Terror of Everblight - WB: +31
- Proteus - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Carnivean - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Carnivean - PC: 18
The Forsaken - PC: 0
The Forsaken - PC: 4
Ice Witches - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
THEME: Oracles of Annihilation
---
GENERATED : 04/24/2018 11:03:47
BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
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Post by piedpiperwtf on Apr 24, 2018 16:08:56 GMT
^ sorry off topic^
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Post by rhonlore on Apr 24, 2018 16:32:27 GMT
Anything but a wild beast or inert warjack will contest zones. Oh and maybe out of command troopers? Not sure.. hasn't come up.
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Post by dogganmguest on Apr 25, 2018 1:39:13 GMT
Yeah, out of formation models can't contest, and neither can your caster.
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Post by jojobrunnix on Apr 25, 2018 6:23:59 GMT
This reminds me of a question that came up last weekend.
Can models that are out of formation engage/be engaged?
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760 
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Post by unded on Apr 25, 2018 6:58:09 GMT
Vayl2 really screams to be played out of theme imo. Thankfully, I know the OP does not consider "out of theme" to be dirty words. Here's some of the compelling tech to go out of theme for with Vayl:
1) Typhon. Boundless charge really deals with his biggest weakness (lack of pathfinder in a faction that very rarely can hand out pathfinder to beasts) and gives a great SPD boost to an already high-SPD beast. Lastly as an expensive piece he is a prime candidate for Admonition against a melee-centric enemy.
2) Seraph - just such great synergy with Typhon, both for slipstream and flare. Flare means you can reliably hit with Typhon's sprays, saving FURY for boosting damage and his Animus, and with slipstream you can either boost up his threat range for melee or shooting, or even use it to shoot with Typhon and the slipstream backwards to get out of reprisal range. Slipstream also gives you great options for the next pieces I love with her...
3) Warlords. Vayl struggles a bit with armour cracking, and these two are perfect for the job. Again, boundless charge is key here, covering the biggest problem with these guys, namely pathfinder. If needed you also have slipstream to push them to an obscene 14" threat on high-MAT decapitating weaponmasters.
4) Hellmouths. There's something delicious about bouncing spells off tentacles. In addition, the potential for an occultated Hellmouth has all kinds of hilarious built into it. (Suck it, widowmakers!)
5) Naga. You have no damage buffs, so at least ignore most armour buffs in return.
6) Neph Bloodseer. There's a lot of animus abuse going on in this recommendation list, and telemetry would not go amiss for an assassination run either.
So there's my base recipe, mix and match as you see fit. The bloodseer might pull you towards hex hunters, or maybe occultation will tempt you to bring swordsmen or raptors, reallly fill it out as suits your own playstyle and your particular meta. I think the combination of toys she wants makes a strong case for going out of theme, obviously YMMV.
-und_ed
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 25, 2018 9:19:21 GMT
This reminds me of a question that came up last weekend. Can models that are out of formation engage/be engaged? from page 64
'While out of formation, a trooper cannot advance outside of
its Normal Movement, make special actions, or make attacks,
including attacks that do not take place during the model’s
or unit’s activation, such as a free strike.'
So to answer your question, they can still be engaged, they just cannot make attacks.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 25, 2018 12:03:10 GMT
Vayl2 really screams to be played out of theme imo. Thankfully, I know the OP does not consider "out of theme" to be dirty words. I feel I beat that point home too often for most people's tastes. question concerning the Naga - does Chasten just not have good enough odds to damage? I figured with that spell I might actually get to save those 8 points that are always taken up in my lists. I think I'm still leaning towards Oracles. Just too may beasts needed (Seraph and Naga for example) that not getting points based on them is grievously detrimental. So BFS for sure to get at least some damage buff in. Maybe a min unit of hex hunters, but I'm not sure. If only we could place the throne with SS like Circle places theirs with stones. |
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Apr 25, 2018 13:01:04 GMT
I've failed to damage with chasten too often to rely on it for my tastes.
The problem is that the one thing Vayl2 lacks is an armour cracking ability, so it's precisely against armour buffs that you want to cast Chasten, which in turn are the exact times it becomes more likely to fail.
You absolutely can shave off points and work with Chasten, and it will work for you plenty times, but it's a little too much like gambling for my tastes.
Side note, never feel jealous of Circle. If you're gonna be envious of a faction, pick damned near any other faction, but envying the only faction that rivals Legion for "crappiest themes in the game" seems like aiming stupidly low. It's one of the reasons I like playing out of theme in both Circle and Legion - I don't feel like I'm giving up much to play out of theme. You won't ever catch me playing out of theme with Grymkin or Cryx.
-und_ed
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 25, 2018 13:34:26 GMT
I was just making a joke. My wife took over my Circle army and worked her way towards Krueger 2 bones without any outside influence. So I've been watching the Fulcrum get TK'd and ported by stones and it's just soo cool.
But no, I don't "envy" Circle for that. There are a few things I wish I had (Hunters mark *cough cough*). But I don't think either Circle or Legion is sitting too terribly well in the big picture.
[ramble]
I would say I just envy the damage swings so many factions have that the "glass cannon" faction can't even approach. I cannot theory craft anything even in the most complicated set up that I think can reliably deal with armor in the amounts it can be fielded. Hence this thread.
(I know, we don't fit the cannon aspect anymore. We are more or less the fast faction now.)
[/ramble]
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Apr 25, 2018 14:07:17 GMT
Seriously, consider the Neraph too. He brings a lot of model manipulation to the list (beat-back + attractor) and can really open up caster kills.
Also 1 game out of 3 I just used him (almost) alone to caster kill. Especially in late game, he really has some quick and efficient caster kill activations.
I usually bring only 1 throne in order to bring 2 Neraphs.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 25, 2018 18:44:14 GMT
What I'm looking at right now. conflictchamber.com/#ca201b_-0tbtkHbvbfkNaObub9b9brjxhWLegion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Oracles of Annihilation (Vayl 2) Vayl, Consul of Everblight [+28] - Carnivean [18] - Naga Nightlurker [8] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Scythean [16] - Seraph [14] - Succubus [0(4)] The Forsaken [0(4)] The Forsaken [4] Blackfrost Shard [9] Ice Witches [7] Throne of Everblight [16] At first look it's probably too focus on assassination. The amount of vectors might be a bit ridiculous. 6 Ice cages with possible help from the throne. Flare. Sprays. Blightbomb. Murderous Scythean. I have to test it before I even start to make a decision but just the first impression screams "desperation". This list would not be able to deal with scenario. It doesn't have enough high quality damage like Angels. It doesn't have cheap trading pieces. It really just seems like it won't pull any weight outside of the assassination run. |
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Apr 25, 2018 20:12:47 GMT
I actually think that Vayl2 could make great use out of the Archangel. It's naturally high hitting power and gun and MASSIVE arcing base I think suit her well, plus the extra 2" to its threat can really add a lot. Given the list you posted,I would probably replace the Carny and Scythean for it (course I despise both of those beasts so... I may be biased)
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