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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 22, 2018 12:52:06 GMT
I think they have pictures of it in the ikrpg book, also at least a few gunmages (Ryan comes to mind, maybe few blazer models) has a bandolier on hem somewhere filled with bullets, not musket balls. Yes, that's true, PP mainly uses metallic cartridges on their models despite many weapons (including gunmage pistols) looking like old single-shot percussion pistols. In the "real world" people were using revolvers before metallic cartridges became common, so I sometimes get confused about how things work in the Iron Kingdoms since they mainly seem to use single-shot weapons despite already having metallic cartridges, revolvers, belt-fed automatic weapons, etc.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 23, 2018 10:02:22 GMT
Warmachine weapons are mostly breach-loading firearms with paper cartridges. Revolvers and more advanced tech uses metal cartridges, or aclhemical weird stuff.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 23, 2018 11:10:55 GMT
Warmachine weapons are mostly breach-loading firearms with paper cartridges. Revolvers and more advanced tech uses metal cartridges, or aclhemical weird stuff. What he said. Although metal catridge do exists and actually it is not so uncommon, but still it is only a minority. Because paper cartridge does not needs special equipment to press and does not need the metal to wrap it, many rounds, especially for hand made rounds wrap by the individual, are paper cartridge. And, most firearms are can work with both types of cartridges, and as cyghnarstronk said only some weird stuffs are requires metal cased round, which means it is totally fine to go with paper wraped round unless you have some expensive guns. All of us are already know well about the usefulness of metal cased round and is actually useful in IKRPG due to its durability, but it seems that the current era of west Immoren is still on the dawn of metal cartridge.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 23, 2018 11:27:33 GMT
OK, so I assume the paper cartridge uses a lead ball for the bullet. And I assume that Gunmages have runes on their bullets, so "rune ball" works after all.
I'm now curious about whether they use percussion caps or flintlocks or something, but I assume they use some sort of Iron Kingdoms magic since the models themselves don't have any sort of recognizable ignition system.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 23, 2018 11:50:50 GMT
Most firearms in west Immoren are breech loaded guns, and that's why you can't see the caps or flints. Even blunderbuss of WInter Guards is breech loaded firearm, surprisingly.
And.... because gun mages uses rune incribed bullets, I think that most bullets they uses are casted by themselves rather than mass produced, therefore the bullets gun mage uses are usually paper wraped.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 23, 2018 12:57:48 GMT
Most firearms in west Immoren are breech loaded guns, and that's why you can't see the caps or flints. Even blunderbuss of WInter Guards is breech loaded firearm, surprisingly. And.... because gun mages uses rune incribed bullets, I don't think that most bullets they uses are casted by themselves rather than mass produced, therefore the bullets gun mage uses are usually paper wraped I think. Breech loading doesn't mean there won't be a visible ignition system or at least a hammer (I suppose they could use internal hammers or strikers, but that seems unlikely). PP handguns and rifles (but not warjack-carried firearms) often have a bulbous attachment right where the rear sights should be, I've always assumed that was intended to be some sort of magical ignition system. Gunmage pistols seem to be styled after old muzzle-loaded firearms. I don't think that precludes them from using paper cartridges even if they are supposed to be muzzle loaders, and I think I've read somewhere about an IKRPG rule that allows gunmages to teleport cartridges directly into their weapons for faster reloads, so I guess it makes sense for them to use paper cartridges that are completely consumed when firing (so no metal case left over to eject), however to my knowledge paper cartridges don't usually include a percussion cap and instead rely on an external ignition system?
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Apr 23, 2018 13:36:38 GMT
The model actually had me sign into Mini-crate. I think it is a very nice sculpt and not just a boring "pin-Up" version. I think they should have made it a non-limited sculpt tough.
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Post by aniron on Apr 23, 2018 13:51:48 GMT
Most firearms in west Immoren are breech loaded guns, and that's why you can't see the caps or flints. Even blunderbuss of WInter Guards is breech loaded firearm, surprisingly. And.... because gun mages uses rune incribed bullets, I don't think that most bullets they uses are casted by themselves rather than mass produced, therefore the bullets gun mage uses are usually paper wraped I think. Breech loading doesn't mean there won't be a visible ignition system or at least a hammer (I suppose they could use internal hammers or strikers, but that seems unlikely). PP handguns and rifles (but not warjack-carried firearms) often have a bulbous attachment right where the rear sights should be, I've always assumed that was intended to be some sort of magical ignition system. Gunmage pistols seem to be styled after old muzzle-loaded firearms. I don't think that precludes them from using paper cartridges even if they are supposed to be muzzle loaders, and I think I've read somewhere about an IKRPG rule that allows gunmages to teleport cartridges directly into their weapons for faster reloads, so I guess it makes sense for them to use paper cartridges that are completely consumed when firing (so no metal case left over to eject), however to my knowledge paper cartridges don't usually include a percussion cap and instead rely on an external ignition system? Well, IK guns supposedly work by having a pin pierce the two paper/silk (or single metal) cartridge(s), mixing the two-component alchemical powder that they use in lieu of gunpowder and have to keep carefully separated until ignition. No spark needed, just mixing.
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Post by NoSuchMethod on Apr 23, 2018 13:54:00 GMT
Come to think of it, I have no idea what a rune shot looks like. There are definitely pictures in the IKRPG books. Most look like some kind of bullet, with some looking like the rune is either inscribed on the casing (see below) or it is just an oddly shaped bullet. In any case, we can assume that regardless of the shape of the round, they are using some kind of cased ammo since we've seen a bunch of examples of gunmage weapons that are revolvers, bolt-action or breach-loaded. None of them as far as I know are shown as firing a ball. So yeah, "Runeball Wizard" confuses me as well.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 23, 2018 14:03:22 GMT
NoSuchMethod 'Runeball Wizard' is a play on the song 'Pinball Wizard' by the Who, I would not try to infer anything about the lore of Gun Mage munitions from a mediocre pun.
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Post by GrumpyBear on Apr 23, 2018 19:48:58 GMT
If a person is using caseless ammunition if still benefits them to pre-wrap the paper and gunpowder, especially if they plan to load quickly. Its much easier to load the gunpowder, ignition mechanism, then the ball if its all pre-wrapped. Even in ancient times they had bandoleers, they almost looked like a paper modern shotgun shell. If a Gunmage is enchanting the bullet, a metal casing would actually be very detrimental because it would be impossible to reach the actual bullet to put runes on it, enchanting the case probably woudn't help any more then enchanting the pistol it is on. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulleten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_cartridgeIts completely believable a Pistoleer with magic bullets might have a bandoleer of pre-prepared rounds for fast, in combat loading. It would look very similar to a modern bandoleer of large ammunition. Modern bullets, in fact, are very similar to paper cartridges in many ways. The internals of a bullet share many, many similarities.
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Post by NoSuchMethod on Apr 23, 2018 19:59:21 GMT
NoSuchMethod 'Runeball Wizard' is a play on the song 'Pinball Wizard' by the Who, I would not try to infer anything about the lore of Gun Mage munitions from a mediocre pun. Yeah, I get the Who reference. The query I was replying to was regarding what a "runeball" is, if anything, or failing that what the connection is between a GMCA and the song. If they were going to make a model with a Who reference, shouldn't it have been Sturgis? It doesn't even appear to be a pun, really... that would require the coin to have at least two sides. Unless I missed something, which is certainly possible.
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Post by NoSuchMethod on Apr 23, 2018 20:20:50 GMT
If a person is using caseless ammunition if still benefits them to pre-wrap the paper and gunpowder, especially if they plan to load quickly. Its much easier to load the gunpowder, ignition mechanism, then the ball if its all pre-wrapped. Even in ancient times they had bandoleers, they almost looked like a paper modern shotgun shell. If a Gunmage is enchanting the bullet, a metal casing would actually be very detrimental because it would be impossible to reach the actual bullet to put runes on it, enchanting the case probably woudn't help any more then enchanting the pistol it is on. Agreed on all points except this last one. We know gunmages mostly cast their own shot, and so would pack / case it themselves as well. They could just inscribe the runes prior to putting the case on. You could also pop an assembled bullet out, inscribe it, and re-case. It isn't very labor intensive with the correct tools. Side note: The term "caseless ammunition" isn't what you were reaching for, I don't think - that refers to modern bullets where the propellant is cast around the shot to form a 'case' that burns up, with the intent being to reduce ammo weight and increase cycling speed. Caseless is still a pre-assembled cartridge in the modern sense - if anything it'd probably be considered a "higher" tech level than brass-cased ammo. The older style of having separate components assembled in the gun is referred to usually as Muzzleloading or Cap-and-Ball depending on the specifics.
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Post by gobber on Apr 23, 2018 20:52:36 GMT
The fact that she was never hinted/spoiled before 2 days ago (while we have seen concept arts of things like Arlan Versh since one year ago and it's still not released) only makes it more fishy. I think Harley Versh is a special case we should avoid drawing conclusions upon; the last time someone posted his concept art to the facebook group one of the PP staff chimed in with a disclaimer that his concept had pretty drastically changed since that concept art was released
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 24, 2018 12:30:17 GMT
The fact that she was never hinted/spoiled before 2 days ago (while we have seen concept arts of things like Arlan Versh since one year ago and it's still not released) only makes it more fishy. I think Harley Versh is a special case we should avoid drawing conclusions upon; the last time someone posted his concept art to the facebook group one of the PP staff chimed in with a disclaimer that his concept had pretty drastically changed since that concept art was released Arlan Versh is a character from the Strangewayes / Harlan Versh slashfic. Harley Versh is a character from the Joker / Harlan Versh slashfic.
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