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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 17, 2018 13:44:17 GMT
Hi all, I've got a quick question for you. I'll probably play H3 gravediggers smokewall soon, and I've basically never played her. Yeah shame on me. I plan on bringing just ironclad and thorn as my jacks, then full trenchers+UA, full TLG+UA, double buster, one express team + master gunner, probably commandos min+2 scatter+2 UA (but I could drop them for more anti armor), ragman, hitch, doggo. Sounds good? How the heck do I move the smokewall forward, any tips for deploy/first turn movement and order of activation? Should I drop the commandos for more anti armor? Thanks in advance.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 17, 2018 13:58:16 GMT
With regards to the Express Team and Master Gunner, it is better to try and get 2 Express Teams instead if you can find the point to spare, as that gives you wider board cover and some redundancy, if the Trollkin is killed, the Master Gunner just sits around twiddling his thumbs.
Ragman, Hitch and Doggo are mandatory imho, along with Finn.
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Post by geo67 on Apr 17, 2018 14:40:43 GMT
Don't sell the dog short, he is a pain for your opponent, is cheap, and fixes stealth problems.
I find two Express teams to be really a threat, and puts pressure on how your opponnent sets up. I usually place one team on each side of the battle field, pref on a hill if you can get it. These guys can kill something almost every turn, and they cause problems with your opponent's caster, and where they can move. POW 14 is pretty awesome.
I haven't had as much success with the Busters, they are usually my opponent's first choice to kill, and I haven't gotten enough experience with them to use them to their fullest.
I played w/Hitch, I played w/out Hitch. Take Hitch. He alleviates the headache of moving/LOS/and shooting for your trenchers. If you have the ability to JMarshall him to a Grenadier, he'll give that bad boy an extra shot. The game I played w/out him, I fumbled all over the place, had guys blocking each other, etc. He will let you play a bit faster.
As a newer GDigger player, I am having success with Express on the sides, Triumph in the MIddle, Trencher Infanty off center a bit, and my Trencher commandos a bit on the left side. My first movement turn is pretty fast, my second turn on, it slows down.
I have had some nice success taking Rangers as well, they let you hit more accurately, especially your Express team, and Triumph.
If you aren't married to Hal3y, you may want to try a run with Siege 2 in GDiggers. 36cygnar24guy36 has a nice write up on the Colonel, and he is extremely versatile caster, but is quite challenging to learn.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 17, 2018 19:21:00 GMT
Don't sell the dog short, he is a pain for your opponent, is cheap, and fixes stealth problems. I find two Express teams to be really a threat, and puts pressure on how your opponnent sets up. I usually place one team on each side of the battle field, pref on a hill if you can get it. These guys can kill something almost every turn, and they cause problems with your opponent's caster, and where they can move. POW 14 is pretty awesome. I haven't had as much success with the Busters, they are usually my opponent's first choice to kill, and I haven't gotten enough experience with them to use them to their fullest. I played w/Hitch, I played w/out Hitch. Take Hitch. He alleviates the headache of moving/LOS/and shooting for your trenchers. If you have the ability to JMarshall him to a Grenadier, he'll give that bad boy an extra shot. The game I played w/out him, I fumbled all over the place, had guys blocking each other, etc. He will let you play a bit faster. As a newer GDigger player, I am having success with Express on the sides, Triumph in the MIddle, Trencher Infanty off center a bit, and my Trencher commandos a bit on the left side. My first movement turn is pretty fast, my second turn on, it slows down. I have had some nice success taking Rangers as well, they let you hit more accurately, especially your Express team, and Triumph. If you aren't married to Hal3y, you may want to try a run with Siege 2 in GDiggers. 36cygnar24guy36 has a nice write up on the Colonel, and he is extremely versatile caster, but is quite challenging to learn. That was Juris |
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Post by geo67 on Apr 17, 2018 21:01:10 GMT
Don't sell the dog short, he is a pain for your opponent, is cheap, and fixes stealth problems. I find two Express teams to be really a threat, and puts pressure on how your opponnent sets up. I usually place one team on each side of the battle field, pref on a hill if you can get it. These guys can kill something almost every turn, and they cause problems with your opponent's caster, and where they can move. POW 14 is pretty awesome. I haven't had as much success with the Busters, they are usually my opponent's first choice to kill, and I haven't gotten enough experience with them to use them to their fullest. I played w/Hitch, I played w/out Hitch. Take Hitch. He alleviates the headache of moving/LOS/and shooting for your trenchers. If you have the ability to JMarshall him to a Grenadier, he'll give that bad boy an extra shot. The game I played w/out him, I fumbled all over the place, had guys blocking each other, etc. He will let you play a bit faster. As a newer GDigger player, I am having success with Express on the sides, Triumph in the MIddle, Trencher Infanty off center a bit, and my Trencher commandos a bit on the left side. My first movement turn is pretty fast, my second turn on, it slows down. I have had some nice success taking Rangers as well, they let you hit more accurately, especially your Express team, and Triumph. If you aren't married to Hal3y, you may want to try a run with Siege 2 in GDiggers. 36cygnar24guy36 has a nice write up on the Colonel, and he is extremely versatile caster, but is quite challenging to learn. That was Juris CRAP! You're right. Thanks for correcting me on that. Sorry, Juris. |
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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 17, 2018 23:31:33 GMT
Thanks a lot for the answers, do you have any pictures or vassal screenshots for the smokewall?
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kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172 
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Post by kaernak on Apr 18, 2018 13:41:28 GMT
Copied from the thread with Juris:
"Siege2's strength extends well beyond his feat. After having played over 50 games with Siege2 at this point, I've come to strongly believe that his primary strength lies in the fact that he shores up the weaknesses of the Trencher design space, which allows you to play them even more effectively into a wide band of MU's.
In order to understand the above, let's first discuss what Trenchers are good at.
First, Trenchers are inherently survivable. Their base statline (13/13 tough) is good to begin with. They all have some additional innate defensive technology (stealth, dig-in, etc.). Trenchers don't need help getting delivered; they do that well on their own.
Second, Trenchers skirmish well. Trenchers are very good at out-skirmishing other infantry. Their guns are accurate and numerous, and they will win a skirmish with other infantry units most of the time. They are also very effective at thinning the ranks of (or destroying outright) lightly armored enemy melee units before the lines meet. A further analysis of why Trenchers skirmish well has to do with a combination of their good innate accuracy, their survivability, and their decent to long ranged threat distance.
Finally, Trenchers as an archetype now have a lot of tools. The Trencher Express Crew is the brightest example of this. For 5 points, you get a 2 man unit which absolutely exemplifies the above 2 points, while also bringing board control and Grievous Wounds to the list. Thunderbolt shots on a model which is 13/13, Tough, with Cautious Advance Order and 5 boxes, who threats a minimum of 20" each turn, is incredible. Contrasted with the Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (who die to a stiff breeze), the Trencher Express Crew is more accurate, and incredibly difficult to kill. Grievous Wounds is also just Kryptonite in many matches. Trenchers also provide the option to block LOS with clouds, some of the models have native Pathfinder, some of them have anatomical precision, etc. A Trencher Platoon is a versatile toolbox and brings a lot of technology to the table.
Now, what are Trencher's weaknesses? Primarily, they don't hit very hard in melee. Without assistance, the hardest any Trencher unit can hit in melee is at POW11. This is a significant limitation because you will almost always need to hit harder than POW11 in melee to close out a game. Additionally, Trenchers don't threat very far in melee. 9.5" to 10" is their maximum native melee threat. Frequently, that is just not far enough (as they are out-threat by your opponent's models).
Siege2 doesn't just put a patch on these holes, he builds a fortress around them. Bringing Fury to the table instantly solves the Trencher's issue with being pillow-fisted. Furthermore, because Gravediggers allows you to bring a merc solo and a merc unit, you can add up to a 7 point damage swing in the list. Trenchers who can charge at PS 16 or 18 kill heavies. We're in Cryxian territory at this point. Additionally, being able to add up to 5" of threat to a single Trencher unit (and 3" to every other warrior model in the list except Ragman) is huge. Adding 2" every turn of the game to one unit is also fantastic. The fact that Siege shores up these weaknesses means that you can play Trenchers in the Gravediggers theme and fully commit to the Trencher platoon, thus maximizing free points and the skirmishing/scenario strength of the models. This is Siege's greatest strength, but not his only contribution.
Siege is also a solid anchor. He threats a long distance, is highly mobile, and the fact that he has Ram on his hammer enables assassinations that would otherwise be impossible.
Finally, he has a huge personal impact on scenario. This is a combination of many factors, including his personal mobility and Ram (he can charge, kill something or even just push it out of contesting, then leap 5" back to safety), his spell list (Battering Ram and Razor Wall are incredible spells for scenario play), his personal survivability, and the fact that he can create a model which is a solo warrior model. He will always be able to add a model to contest or score a flag; that is a huge boon by itself.
When you consider everything above, it seems like Siege2 is playable into almost anything. My experience has shown this to be true. He has few truly unplayable matchups, and has a surprisingly high skill cap. I feel like I am pretty good at playing him, and I've still come nowhere near to what I would describe as mastery of my list."
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