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Post by davycannonhound on Apr 15, 2018 23:07:07 GMT
So, recently, wolds have been a pain in the ***. My usual answer to Circle is shooting (lyllyth2) or sometimes Fyanna2. However Wolds usually shut down Lyllyth2 (especially either Baulder, and to a lesser extent Mohsar), while Bradigus and Baulder2 shut down Fyanna pretty well (massive threat and the f*cking wall, specifically).
So, what do y'all use against wold spam? Usually Fyanna cracks armor well, but if the Naga gets removed early on then its kind of game over (at least against Baulder2 anyway). Bradigus outthreats her so badly I usually burn my feat to try and hit anything at all(forget getting an alpha strike).
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685 
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Post by Lanz on Apr 15, 2018 23:54:54 GMT
I haven't seen much woldspam in mk3. Do they out-threat legion now? I feel like the answer should be alpha melee (abby2) but also that should be obvious.
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Post by davycannonhound on Apr 16, 2018 2:10:38 GMT
I haven't seen much woldspam in mk3. Do they out-threat legion now? I feel like the answer should be alpha melee (abby2) but also that should be obvious. Bradigus certainly does. Baulder2 does in a roundabout way, thanks to his stone wall. Depending on how much flight you have, Baulder1 does thanks to his feat. Mohsar has salt pillars, so another roundabout out-threat deal. |
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Apr 16, 2018 12:11:24 GMT
Define wold spam, there are a lot of different versions.
If you are just talking about a balanced Bones list then my usual answer is Thags1 CotD. Bones tends to lack hitting power, and Legion will almost always alpha bones anyway. The fixes to that problem (Bradigus feat) are not really fixed by our extreme alpha casters, so I prefer someone that punishes the inherent weaknesses of the models. Make sure you kill the solos in the back, they are what makes wolds tick.
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Post by davycannonhound on Apr 16, 2018 15:08:41 GMT
Define wold spam, there are a lot of different versions. If you are just talking about a balanced Bones list then my usual answer is Thags1 CotD. Bones tends to lack hitting power, and Legion will almost always alpha bones anyway. The fixes to that problem (Bradigus feat) are not really fixed by our extreme alpha casters, so I prefer someone that punishes the inherent weaknesses of the models. Make sure you kill the solos in the back, they are what makes wolds tick. By woldspam, I mean megalith, woldwardens, woldwyrds (those are a nightmare), and woldwatchers. Along with the occasional woldwight. Along with Blackclad Stoneshapers and Blackclad Wayfarers (which are harder to deal with than they should be, due to forests and center obstacles. Hate SR17 terrain rules). |
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Apr 16, 2018 16:34:39 GMT
So my answer to all this is Thags1 CotD. A local player here really likes Bones piloted by Moshar, eKreuger and Baldur1.
If they don't have a damage amp (eKreuger, pKreuger) I abuse my aura and unyielding. If they don't have a threat range extender (Baldurs, Moshar) I abuse their speed by blitzing up the board and jamming out of zones.
Don't hand out upkeeps to beasts if you don't have to, the wyrds only go to 11. I would alpha onto them if you can, they are a guranteed kill and hit way above their weight class. This is another advantage of Thags as he doesn't rely on an upkeep for damage mitigation.
Wolds are slow, try to play around that.
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Post by davycannonhound on Apr 16, 2018 18:34:17 GMT
Wolds are slow, try to play around that. Hunters Mark certainly doesn't reflect that. Lol |
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Post by copperflame on Apr 16, 2018 18:47:01 GMT
With the Theme structure, addressing specific Themes within a faction would be a good advice. I think any tatica would need to be broad enough where you don't have to update it (less providing bad advice). But a tatica you could call out specific bonuses/casters/models/interactions for a player to be aware of going into.
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Post by apoc2148 on Apr 16, 2018 20:04:59 GMT
Write ups against the current tourney "boogeymen" lists would be useful. I'm starting to think about going to some of the local SR tournies and would like to try getting to a con next year so having a heads up about which lists I might see could be useful.
Edit: I know I can find all the lists online, but having some discussion about how legions handles them would be helpful.
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Apr 16, 2018 22:41:08 GMT
Wolds are slow, try to play around that. Hunters Mark certainly doesn't reflect that. Lol And the stone sentinel (?) makes them hit hard. We have a good roster of tools to scalpel key solos, you can't always get them but you ruin game plans when you do. Hunters mark is also unreliable against anything with defense. If you don't lead with a Scythian in the middle of the table your opponent will not be able to plan around the +2 inches. I could be biased in my list construction, but all of my lists have a defense 13+ model. That with concealment or FoW makes a poor if not impossible hunters mark target. Angels are a great tool against Bones in general, as no knockdown really neuters the killing power of a lot of your heavies. The big exception to this would be Bradigus, in which you need to plan around synergy. It sounds deadly in theory but in practice I find the vulnerability of Bradigus himself combined with his low control area really forces your opponent to play conservatively with him. |
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Post by davycannonhound on Apr 16, 2018 22:48:37 GMT
Hunters Mark certainly doesn't reflect that. Lol And the stone sentinel (?) makes them hit hard. We have a good roster of tools to scalpel key solos, you can't always get them but you ruin game plans when you do. Hunters mark is also unreliable against anything with defense. If you don't lead with a Scythian in the middle of the table your opponent will not be able to plan around the +2 inches. I could be biased in my list construction, but all of my lists have a defense 13+ model. That with concealment or FoW makes a poor if not impossible hunters mark target. Angels are a great tool against Bones in general, as no knockdown really neuters the killing power of a lot of your heavies. The big exception to this would be Bradigus, in which you need to plan around synergy. It sounds deadly in theory but in practice I find the vulnerability of Bradigus himself combined with his low control area really forces your opponent to play conservatively with him. Thats true (stone shaper). I try to get them when I can, but theres usually something threatening my models if I can easily get to one. I've been playing in Primal Terrors a lot lately, so that could be part of my problem. Thats true but SR17 rules help him out immensely. |
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Apr 17, 2018 1:34:22 GMT
And the stone sentinel (?) makes them hit hard. We have a good roster of tools to scalpel key solos, you can't always get them but you ruin game plans when you do. Hunters mark is also unreliable against anything with defense. If you don't lead with a Scythian in the middle of the table your opponent will not be able to plan around the +2 inches. I could be biased in my list construction, but all of my lists have a defense 13+ model. That with concealment or FoW makes a poor if not impossible hunters mark target. Angels are a great tool against Bones in general, as no knockdown really neuters the killing power of a lot of your heavies. The big exception to this would be Bradigus, in which you need to plan around synergy. It sounds deadly in theory but in practice I find the vulnerability of Bradigus himself combined with his low control area really forces your opponent to play conservatively with him. Thats true (stone shaper). I try to get them when I can, but theres usually something threatening my models if I can easily get to one. I've been playing in Primal Terrors a lot lately, so that could be part of my problem. Thats true but SR17 rules help him out immensely. Circle also has a lot of things that hit in a weight class that is dangerous to medium infantry, I think PT will be weaker than most themes into them (though I do not play a lot of PT). Ravens has lots of good tools to remove support models from play while still having the beasts that circle is really scared of. Circles old nemesis the Ravagore has also made a comeback in my lists with his point reduction. He still scares any sort of Werewolf list away and given the stoneshapers love of hugging a heavy for that defense/armor buff his AoE can tag them with a solid boosted pow 8. My Abby1 list (OoA w/ 2 Angels, 2 Ravagores, Proteus) rips circle to pieces as it fields pretty much everything circle hates (Flying, Ravagores, Grievous Wounds, Blight Burst, Refuge Angels). The only real caveat is that you will need to be careful with upkeeps if they are fielding a significant Wyrd force. |
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Post by davycannonhound on Apr 17, 2018 4:50:26 GMT
Thats true (stone shaper). I try to get them when I can, but theres usually something threatening my models if I can easily get to one. I've been playing in Primal Terrors a lot lately, so that could be part of my problem. Thats true but SR17 rules help him out immensely. Circle also has a lot of things that hit in a weight class that is dangerous to medium infantry, I think PT will be weaker than most themes into them (though I do not play a lot of PT). Ravens has lots of good tools to remove support models from play while still having the beasts that circle is really scared of. Circles old nemesis the Ravagore has also made a comeback in my lists with his point reduction. He still scares any sort of Werewolf list away and given the stoneshapers love of hugging a heavy for that defense/armor buff his AoE can tag them with a solid boosted pow 8. My Abby1 list (OoA w/ 2 Angels, 2 Ravagores, Proteus) rips circle to pieces as it fields pretty much everything circle hates (Flying, Ravagores, Grievous Wounds, Blight Burst, Refuge Angels). The only real caveat is that you will need to be careful with upkeeps if they are fielding a significant Wyrd force. So focus on Oracles of Annihilation and Ravens of War to deal with Circle, then? And Thags CotD |
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Apr 17, 2018 11:56:51 GMT
Circle also has a lot of things that hit in a weight class that is dangerous to medium infantry, I think PT will be weaker than most themes into them (though I do not play a lot of PT). Ravens has lots of good tools to remove support models from play while still having the beasts that circle is really scared of. Circles old nemesis the Ravagore has also made a comeback in my lists with his point reduction. He still scares any sort of Werewolf list away and given the stoneshapers love of hugging a heavy for that defense/armor buff his AoE can tag them with a solid boosted pow 8. My Abby1 list (OoA w/ 2 Angels, 2 Ravagores, Proteus) rips circle to pieces as it fields pretty much everything circle hates (Flying, Ravagores, Grievous Wounds, Blight Burst, Refuge Angels). The only real caveat is that you will need to be careful with upkeeps if they are fielding a significant Wyrd force. So focus on Oracles of Annihilation and Ravens of War to deal with Circle, then? And Thags CotD Honestly the only thing I would not run into circle is PT. RoW infantry spam could also get stomped by a more niche circle build (Kreuger1 Secret Masters, Baldur2 double Woldwrath Bones, Wurmy). I also like OoA with Ravagores if your opponent is running a CotW list with wolves, as nothing makes an 18 point wolf sadder then losing half its HP from 14 inches away. I could also be biased by my local meta and the forums (circle is my off-faction), but in my world if I am building to beat circle I am accounting for slow tactical list and a squishy fast list. |
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 17, 2018 13:42:02 GMT
This post in relevant to my tastes.jpg
So right now there is a local SR that is pretty lax (ie casual). But I know for a fact that though the players are not world class, they like running lists that are. One thing I expect to run into is Krueger 2 or WW in Bones. One of the guys has talked about it at length and what he's doing to try and learn it better.
So my wife took over my Circle and loves wolds from the get go as she never likes frenzy checks. Enter center stage Krueger 2 bones... from hell. 3 Wyrds, Fulcrum, Megalith, Warden, shifting stones + UA, 2 Shapers, 2 sentry stones, warfarer. Enjoy MASSIVE amounts of boosted guns/sprays and 20" TK threat ranges. It is certified Bonkers.
The SR is ADR possible and is really only a single list (reread - casual) tournament. You're "allowed" to bring two lists but it is optional. My ONE list would be Kryssa as that list is pure joy for me. The 40pts of specialists would be to swing more towards anti-armor to handle Black Industry Gaspy3 spam and the like. But neither the base list or the specialists can really stand up to that much pew. 5 sources of TK AND hunters mark means there is pretty much no hiding from anything. Purgation on wyrds means upkeeps are suicide. But that stupid YO-YO Fulcrum is DUMB. 20" threat on the lightning gun and then it gets ported back 8". The shifting stones are also so flipping far back on the table I will never reach them. Infantry guns would be fast enough to reach them but can't hardly scratch them. Then the idea of putting a Ravagore/bolthrower/Azrael that far up to kill a stone is a miserable prospect.
It's a fantastic list for my Wife. But holy cow is it crazy to deal with.
Now, all that out of the way I know exactly what I would drop to counter it (Lylyth 2 gunline). I don't mind taking said counter as a second list. It was my plan from the start. But it is not remotely well-rounded. It does one janky job and though effective, won't solve any real problems by legit tourny lists.
So, extremely long story short, I'd love to see people's thoughts on taking on other power themes/pairs. I mean Gaspy 3 BI is pretty straight forward but what about the satyxis theme now? Do we still try to keep a list in our pair for Ghost Fleet?
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