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Post by benjamini on Apr 10, 2018 19:28:44 GMT
Hey guys,
Last weekend I hit up the SOO and played some interesting games. I didn't perform all that well, but I entered both the champions and masters events with at least one Jaws of the Wolf list in each pairing.
Saturday Morning I sat down to my first game, and ended up playing Butcher 3 Jaws into Kallus 1 Ravens of War. Both themes had similar benefits concerning ambushing, but most importantly, this represented one of the few if not the only times I had played Jaws where the "Enemy can't ambush" rule actually gave me any sort of benefit. All things considered, it was probably my most enjoyable game of the whole weekend. Even though after a hard fought game, I ended up succumbing to the near endless tide of Grotesques and Incubi.
As the day went on I reflected on that game, and how it was one of the only times I could remember where I had blocked off an ambush, which caused me to wonder how much I was really gaining out of playing Jaws (barring some free Forge seers) compared to playing a more flexible list out of theme. I don't often feel like the beneficiaries of the other theme benefit, Battle Mechaniks, contribute effectively to games as they are, and I often find myself wanting to bring other things in my jack heavy lists (in which case I often find myself asking "why not just build a jack heavy list in a theme that does have those things".
Have any of you guys ever felt the same way? Am I missing something with Jaws?
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Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 10, 2018 20:19:20 GMT
Yes it is very bland. You just sit there and watch people throw dice at your arm boxes. It needs inclusion of journeymen to have actual decision making involved.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Apr 10, 2018 22:44:14 GMT
I too went to the SOO and had my jacks blown off the table like they were nothing.
Now i did make some mistakes mainly during list selection but it just seems that no matter where i put my jacks the oppenent was able to put high quality shots into them.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Apr 10, 2018 22:55:46 GMT
I think when jaws took away Advance Deploy it felt like the theme had an effect that made the theme worthwhile taking over others. Now its just a way to play some good models on the table together and getting some free stuff.
Now that it only takes away ambush the only models that really scare thr Khador armour that ambush are the battle bears in trolls.
Even though i love reposition as a rule i think that jaws needs to loose the theme benefit for the mechanics and give something else to make the theme force more dynamic. Not sure what but something
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Post by Havock on Apr 10, 2018 23:23:48 GMT
It doesn't actually do anything for the units you can take aside from the freebies (oh, I guess repo on the mechanics?).
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Apr 10, 2018 23:39:39 GMT
It doesn't actually do anything for the units you can take aside from the freebies (oh, I guess repo on the mechanics?). How about they change the repo on mechanics to repo on all faction units? |
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Post by benjamini on Apr 11, 2018 0:51:53 GMT
I too went to the SOO and had my jacks blown off the table like they were nothing. Now i did make some mistakes mainly during list selection but it just seems that no matter where i put my jacks the oppenent was able to put high quality shots into them. I actually didn't have that much trouble with shooting! I did kind of feel like my jacks were pretty trivial to remove sometimes though... |
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Post by auraco on Apr 11, 2018 11:57:41 GMT
Yeah it's booring, I'm not a fan, it's a theme you take mostly for the free points. Unless I play Strakhov1 I don't usually have a jaws list in my pairing and I don't miss it.
At the SOO in the 3 list masters I had 2 WGK list and one Wolves list and I was very comfortable with my pairing.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 11, 2018 12:07:51 GMT
This is a problem with a lot of theme forces, they are as exciting as a mild Biryani with a side of plain rice
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Post by benjamini on Apr 11, 2018 12:41:29 GMT
Yeah it's booring, I'm not a fan, it's a theme you take mostly for the free points. Unless I play Strakhov1 I don't usually have a jaws list in my pairing and I don't miss it. At the SOO in the 3 list masters I had 2 WGK list and one Wolves list and I was very comfortable with my pairing. Two WGK and a Wolves would have probably been more exciting, I can agree with that. AK should be a little more interesting once the CID update drops and it is fleshed out a little more (even though it still has a theme benefit that is based around battle mechaniks, which is less than ideal). |
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Post by auraco on Apr 11, 2018 13:20:23 GMT
AK gets advance move, possibly lots of them, mechanics help with that. This is way more exciting than the benefits from jaws. So you still get benefits even if you don't take mechaniks in AK unless you build a tanker drakhun chariots list...
Once the tankers drop I'll be trying AK, with the advance move change and the tankers being legit I think there will be something to do with the theme. Still not convinced at all by the chariots though...
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Post by benjamini on Apr 11, 2018 13:43:48 GMT
I actually liked the chariots quite a bit in the CID, but to each their own! Pretty excited about the AK stuff, though I hope there aren't any surprises with the CID rules drop.
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Post by auraco on Apr 11, 2018 14:46:01 GMT
15 point for one unboosted rat 6 shot is... not reliable enough for me. My main issue with the chariots when compared to most other battle engine is that they are way too specialised but are still expansive when compared to the more polyvalent battle engines. I have trouble seeing what kind of answers they bring that we could not already bring before. The tankers are different, they are cheaper and seem like they could do more work than the chariots.
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Post by ozvelpoon on Apr 11, 2018 14:51:59 GMT
If I remember correctly the original idea behind Jaws model selection was something along the lines of "Warjacks, and the pathfinder units Khador uses to get them into combat". Things like Kossites; Manhunters; and Kayazy who transport the jacks and provide stealthy support. What would people think of something like "Khadoran Units and Solo's with Advanced deployment gain Ambush" instead of denying ambush? As of now that would be Widowmakers and Manhunter models.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 11, 2018 16:30:34 GMT
If I remember correctly the original idea behind Jaws model selection was something along the lines of "Warjacks, and the pathfinder units Khador uses to get them into combat". Things like Kossites; Manhunters; and Kayazy who transport the jacks and provide stealthy support. What would people think of something like "Khadoran Units and Solo's with Advanced deployment gain Ambush" instead of denying ambush? As of now that would be Widowmakers and Manhunter models. Ambushing Yuri and Widowmakerss would be...awesome. It’d probably need to be something like: One unit or solo gains ambush for every 25 points of jacks. I’d also like to see some type of benefit for the jacks themaelves. Maybe gain pathfinder on turn 1? |
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