|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 10, 2018 19:04:33 GMT
Character jacks can now be taken with the Juniors, infiltrate has been changed to Battlegroup Controller, so it will work with Caine0.
Shoot from the Hip has been cut, rationale is they want Caine to rely on Spirit Door to get out of combat.
As I feared they are cutting other things to try and balance out Snipe, looks like my dream of a super solo is slipping away.
Ace inclusion is baller though, I am a massive Ace fanboy!
|
|
|
Post by bluebarren on Apr 10, 2018 19:42:38 GMT
Hip shooting was pretty sweet but he's still plenty dangerous and spirit door is still there.
|
|
|
Post by Aegis on Apr 10, 2018 22:01:42 GMT
I should have put a bet on that... I did know they would do that...
Everyone and their mothers tells them that Snipe on a stick is a troumblemaker, but they want to stick with their bad idea, and so start to trim the parts that actually work and are interesting (in Caine0, his super-solo part) to keep the OP part there (Snipe).
I suppose Caine0 we will see even more nerfs on his good part... PP seems to have a real hard on for Snipe and other casters buffs on a stick...
|
|
|
Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 10, 2018 22:39:57 GMT
I should have put a bet on that... I did know they would do that... Everyone and their mothers tells them that Snipe on a stick is a troumblemaker, but they want to stick with their bad idea, and so start to trim the parts that actually work and are interesting (in Caine0, his super-solo part) to keep the OP part there (Snipe). I suppose Caine0 we will see even more nerfs on his good part... PP seems to have a real hard on for Snipe and other casters buffs on a stick... The whole concept of these models is bad. They want them to be exciting, impactful solos that are dynamic and reflective of their more experienced selves...then give each of them a standard-but-powerful buff/debuff spell that will ensure that each and every one of them spends the entire game camping in the backline, because the buff is too valuable to lose. On top of that, each of these casters brings the possibility of game-breaking interactions, due to having these powerful spells that have never before been able to combine with any other caster's kit. Terrible design.
|
|
|
Post by Aegis on Apr 10, 2018 22:56:29 GMT
I should have put a bet on that... I did know they would do that... Everyone and their mothers tells them that Snipe on a stick is a troumblemaker, but they want to stick with their bad idea, and so start to trim the parts that actually work and are interesting (in Caine0, his super-solo part) to keep the OP part there (Snipe). I suppose Caine0 we will see even more nerfs on his good part... PP seems to have a real hard on for Snipe and other casters buffs on a stick... The whole concept of these models is bad. They want them to be exciting, impactful solos that are dynamic and reflective of their more experienced selves...then give each of them a standard-but-powerful buff/debuff spell that will ensure that each and every one of them spends the entire game camping in the backline, because the buff is too valuable to lose. On top of that, each of these casters brings the possibility of game-breaking interactions, due to having these powerful spells that have never before been able to combine with any other caster's kit. Terrible design. Couldn't agree more. If they wanted to make them strong and interesting, they should have made all of them great super-solos (with Caine0 they actually did it), and call it a day. A Caine that shots multiple people down and teleports back, a Sorscha that freezes guys around, a Denny that spellslings around getting souls to fuel her magic, and similar concepts, would have made them clearly remembering their grown up selfs without throwing 4 factions into a hell of un-intended interactions that are very likely to unbalance the game a lot. Universal support pieces (Original JR, Troll's stone, Menoth Choir, Circle Wayfarers and Stones, ecc...) are very rare pieces (Every faction has max 1-2 of them), that usually define the whole gameplay of a faction. Throwing there 4 new ones (and only for 4 factions), with powerfull buffs, is really an horrible idea, and at the beginning they planned to give us just one week to test them... I really don't know what is in the devs mind anymore...
|
|
|
Post by Aegis on Apr 11, 2018 2:30:00 GMT
PPS_Soles: Nice, now shooting into deployment top of 1 zone is officially considered ok...
|
|
|
Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 11, 2018 3:07:03 GMT
PPS_Soles: Nice, now shooting into deployment top of 1 zone is officially considered ok... As I posted on CID, I'm very concerned about the potential for an AD model with trick shot to shoot 5" into the deployment zone. Not cool. There's potential for him to reach 9'" + base size into the DZ, and you can't easily counterdeploy because it's AD.
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 11, 2018 3:32:24 GMT
PPS_Soles: Nice, now shooting into deployment top of 1 zone is officially considered ok... And that's why I think attacking the deployment zone is no more than a dumb idea because it is too hard to do but gains almost nothing. An idea that requires an approval of your opponent is not an option at all in competitive games. Still, because of some meaningless prayers for the idea that only work in the fancy, we got the real feat for Sloan and Hunter got discounted, which are only beneficial for Cygnar, ironically. AD on Hunted was handy and fluffy, though....
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 11, 2018 13:31:13 GMT
PPS_Soles: Nice, now shooting into deployment top of 1 zone is officially considered ok... This is the most blatant insult I've ever seen. I mean this is victim blaming isn't it? You're putting the responsibility for getting shot in deployment on the the defender before they even get to have a turn to play. I am not joking; I'm awe struck that they would pull this sort of hypocritical BS. They specifically have nerfed many different interactions that allowed the first player to hit the enemy deployment zone. From personal memory - Vayl 2 and hellmouths. Also I believe Will-work-for-food had a CID state where arkadius could hit DZ top of one. Just nerfs that hit this year. I cannot believe this. I don't want this! Is this meant to be the new stance that PP takes on their models/game? Bad ideas/models are one thing. This is literally a PP endorsed, irrational, and beyond insulting "git gud". "How did they take advantage of terrain" - They can't, they haven't moved their pieces yet. Or do you imply we should put forests and houses in deployment zones? "Where are their shield guards" - My faction only has 1 and it's stupid flippin expensive and fits in ZERO lists I build. So it wasn't on the table cuz I like playing models that DO stuff. "how did the awareness of the Cygnar player's capabilities affect positioning" - I positioned all of my models in my bag and found something better to do with my time. "At what costs" - About $4k invested into a game that's gone to waste as the game designers have lost their minds. "how was the defender's game impacted" - they never wanted to play against Cygnar again [/unbelievableRage]
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Apr 11, 2018 14:37:38 GMT
I should have put a bet on that... I did know they would do that... Everyone and their mothers tells them that Snipe on a stick is a troumblemaker, but they want to stick with their bad idea, and so start to trim the parts that actually work and are interesting (in Caine0, his super-solo part) to keep the OP part there (Snipe). I suppose Caine0 we will see even more nerfs on his good part... PP seems to have a real hard on for Snipe and other casters buffs on a stick... This is actually pretty common with game developers of all flavors. They tend to try working around primary mechanics that are too strong, but central to their vision of the character. If they're forced to cut it at the last minute, they rarely start the development over again properly. PP has consistently displayed massive issues with this though, generally beyond other developers I've seen. Some of the most oppressive mechanics tend to stay around the longest until they feel like creator pets, and sometimes they suddenly get completely dumpstered. Though here's a question I pose to the Cygnar group at large: What if Caine keeps snipe through the CID and into release? Does he become your version of the choir? Would you be disappointed with that outcome?
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 11, 2018 15:03:41 GMT
Though here's a question I pose to the Cygnar group at large: What if Caine keeps snipe through the CID and into release? Does he become your version of the choir? Would you be disappointed with that outcome? Can I pose a moral question? just out of curiosity, not judgement. If it is released with snipe would anyone legitimately feel bad for using it? It's considered fine by the company and legal for play. So you're not wrong for playing it as is... I guess I'm asking - is there a point where you will say "no" to a model just on an emotion related basis when it comes to the power of the model? I mean I don't really play Abby 2 or Fyanna flying circus for that kind of emotional reason. But I don't feel those casters are as blatant and simple as the 0 casters right now.
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 11, 2018 15:05:35 GMT
Though here's a question I pose to the Cygnar group at large: What if Caine keeps snipe through the CID and into release? Does he become your version of the choir? Would you be disappointed with that outcome? Can I pose a moral question? just out of curiosity, not judgement. If it is released with snipe would anyone legitimately feel bad for using it? It's considered fine by the company and legal for play. So you're not wrong for playing it as is... I guess I'm asking - is there a point where you will say "no" to a model just on an emotion related basis when it comes to the power of the model? I mean I don't really play Abby 2 or Fyanna flying circus for that kind of emotional reason. But I don't feel those casters are as blatant and simple as the 0 casters right now. I would play it so that enough people get mad at it to force PP to change it.
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 11, 2018 15:15:11 GMT
Would like to try this list out
Cygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Heavy Metal
(Haley 2) Major Victoria Haley [+25] - Defender [16] - Stormwall [39] - Thorn [13] - Squire [0(5)] Captain Arlan Strangewayes [0(4)] Journeyman Lieutenant Allister Caine [0(5)] - Ace [12] Journeyman Warcaster [4] - Hunter [10] Field Mechaniks (min) [3] Field Mechaniks (min) [3]
Snipe on the Stormwall gives 14" covering fire templates, combined with Trick shots from Ace and Caine that should keep infantry honest. TK and feat to control and take apart Heavies as usual.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Apr 11, 2018 15:35:14 GMT
Soles is literally an idiot
|
|
|
Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 11, 2018 17:28:42 GMT
Out of curiosity, is there any information why they want Caine to have 'Snipe"?
|
|