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Post by onijet01 on Apr 26, 2018 11:39:24 GMT
My only issue with the Highsheilds stems from "Double Time" i get the reason behind it but it means no sheild wall.
My oppinion is a simple fix, Drop double time order for one that grants reposition combined with sheild wall.
Or
Make the order at least grant rerolls on any cra/crm attack and damage rolls once
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Apr 26, 2018 14:57:04 GMT
In this game 'overpriced' is a synonym of 'bad'. There is a point range where people would start to take them no matter how weak they are. If you look at Steelhead Riflemen, they are much better at what they're trying to do and still no one takes them at 14 points which is seriously cheap to be honest. Price reduction is always a good way to go when there's not enough creativity in Stock. I understand your point, but If I had to choose them or Steelheads, I'm choosing Steelheads. Them or Alexia and the Risen? I'm choosing Alexia. Them or Thorn Gun Mages? Depends on the list. Clearly, my threshold is 9 points, and I consider TGM to be slightly overcosted (I think they should be 8).
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Post by pattison on Apr 26, 2018 19:38:52 GMT
TGM should be 8, no question there. You say you'd take SHR instead of HSGC, but imagine if the whole package with UA would be 13 points. You say you'd take pAlexia over them but for 10 points I'm pretty damn sure all lists would have the HSGC module.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Apr 26, 2018 20:01:59 GMT
My preferences were not including the UA, and to be frank, I actually meant the Halberdiers. I take your point, but I honestly would not take the base unit at 10 with a 5 point UA and at 8 points, I might consider them with Ossrum or Ashlynn, but that's about it and I would never take the UA.
They're just so slow and not worth the effort to deliver.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Apr 26, 2018 23:26:49 GMT
I agree kinda with Xintas on this one. If they're at the same price point as Halbs... I'm going halbs. Halbs have access to more support solos, are faster, and can actually do their job. Most te times I've used High Shields... they die to residual stuff that came from attacks made on the things that ACTUALLY matter. Then if I'm lucky I get one so-so attack and they die the turn after, usually after my opponent has dispatched the important parts of my army. In their case, I don't think cheaper would make them better. They need a rework. A change in stats, and change in abilities, more abilities without a price increase, just something!
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Post by pattison on Apr 27, 2018 5:09:27 GMT
Of course they need a rework. As I said making things cheaper is always an option when there's no creativity. But obviously HSGC are not meant to be a cheapo crappy unit so there's that. Still, I don't think for the price of halberdiers I'd hesitate to bring them in with Ossrum. And I meant the whole package, with UA, because that's how we're looking at them now. PP has too few staff members on development and too many models to go through. Now the community is helping them out but it's still too slow and certain models already got caught by power creep while some others are lagging behind by years - looking at you High Shields. I've bought a unit very cheap in the 2nd half of MKII (after having my first copy sold earlier due to being underwhelming) and they're still there unassembled in a box.
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Post by cleanjim on Apr 27, 2018 10:54:16 GMT
They've always been a bit underwhelming, even back in first edition days. Which is a shame as they were some of the figures that got me playing the game. Looking back at their original rules, I wonder if the old Covered Fusillade (Power 13 guns while in Shield Wall, but can't shoot the next turn) and Steady Shot (+1 to Hit while in Shield Wall) would be enough to make them usable in the current game. Maybe with something to allow them to run while Shieldwalling, and losing Covered Fusillade's no shooting drawback.
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Post by doppleganger on Apr 29, 2018 8:05:02 GMT
The ability to run and shield wall would be a massive help as this would turn them into a blocking tarpit unit for protecting flags/zones.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Apr 30, 2018 13:26:23 GMT
I stand by my earlier concept:
"Highshields: Gain Repo 3", lose CMA, make a version of shield wall that isn't an order, lose double time, weapons go down in range 2" and up 2 pow or go up 2" in range."
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 30, 2018 14:40:13 GMT
make a version of shield wall that isn't an order Why? Is it so they can charge? Because if they have Repo and no other orders they want to use then where's the advantage of it not being an order?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 30, 2018 14:51:26 GMT
I stand by my earlier concept: "Highshields: Gain Repo 3", lose CMA, make a version of shield wall that isn't an order, lose double time, weapons go down in range 2" and up 2 pow or go up 2" in range." I dunno, I feel like CMA is a vital piece of kit for a ranged unit, that must be why PP gave it to them going into Mk3
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Apr 30, 2018 20:46:34 GMT
make a version of shield wall that isn't an order Why? Is it so they can charge? Because if they have Repo and no other orders they want to use then where's the advantage of it not being an order? Mostly a fluff perspective. They are literally the SHIELD experts. AFAIK they are the only unit in the game with SHIELD in the name. But they still have to use an order to even get a single benefit from their SHIELDS? This feels deeply wrong to me.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on May 1, 2018 23:15:34 GMT
Why? Is it so they can charge? Because if they have Repo and no other orders they want to use then where's the advantage of it not being an order? Mostly a fluff perspective. They are literally the SHIELD experts. AFAIK they are the only unit in the game with SHIELD in the name. But they still have to use an order to even get a single benefit from their SHIELDS? This feels deeply wrong to me. Carapace (instead of Shield Wall ORDER) might solve that 'wrong' feeling?
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 1, 2018 23:20:38 GMT
dey aint gittin carpalace
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Post by GrumpyBear on May 1, 2018 23:24:20 GMT
They're gonna get carapace! Carapace for High Shield!
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