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Spam meta
Apr 6, 2018 10:53:22 GMT
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Post by jagius021 on Apr 6, 2018 10:53:22 GMT
This is probably discussed elsewhere (at least with other factions) but a lot of changes seem to be occuring in other factions with some models spam. What comes to find is Hunter spam in cygnar, harpy in ret, Slayer in cryx, etc. Curious what the thoughts are on some spam of our own- specifically on the beast side of things. I know archidon spam has real game, and I've heard a few Drake spams.
What about aradus? Any reality in sentinel or soldier spam? The premise behind a spam being good is essentially (to my knowledge) taking a model with good stats that individually may not ask too many questions, and multiplying it so that they cannot possibly answer the question. A single archidon isn't hard to handle, but 6 is. Just trying to drum up ideas, my skorne has been sitting for a tad too long.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690 
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Post by zich on Apr 6, 2018 11:35:06 GMT
Can't really spam 16p models now can you?
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Spam meta
Apr 6, 2018 12:01:31 GMT
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Post by jagius021 on Apr 6, 2018 12:01:31 GMT
Relativistic spam. Like, 3 bronzebacks is spamming bronzebacks lol
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Spam meta
Apr 6, 2018 12:03:03 GMT
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Post by jagius021 on Apr 6, 2018 12:03:03 GMT
Actual real example, Kraye 5 x 5 runs 5 centurions and 5 hunters
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gordo
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Spam meta
Apr 6, 2018 13:10:24 GMT
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Post by gordo on Apr 6, 2018 13:10:24 GMT
The thing with Aradus is their shooting defense comes baked in. They simply don't need Krea support to survive gun lines. Also it can't be cancelled by Blessed weapons, purification, etc. Even armor piercing gets hosted by it (kinda).
The thing about Soldiers is they are PS 18 built in: this means with the right casters they don't need Paingivers.
Spamming any beast basically means you are playing IWH. Which means you get your Agonizer and Krea for free.
The benefits being you could really double down on Agonizers and also be not as poorly affected by people targeting your Paingivers. So, to that end...
War Room Army
Skorne - New Army
Theme: Imperial Warhost
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Lord Tyrant Zaadesh - WB: +28
- Aradus Sentinel - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Aradus Sentinel - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Aradus Soldier - PC: 16
- Aradus Soldier - PC: 16
- Aradus Sentinel - PC: 16
- Aradus Soldier - PC: 16
- Agonizer - PC: 0
- Agonizer - PC: 0
- Agonizer - PC: 0
Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7
THEME: Imperial Warhost
---
GENERATED : 04/06/2018 09:04:24
BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
Like your typical Zaadesh army, it's built to take it in the face and force a difficult decision on your opponent. Everything in it has Pathfinder, it has tons of anti-infantry options between scathers and Snacking, everything in it has great defenses against shooting, and it will be very difficult to shut down the Agonizer bubble making it resilient in melee as well.
Also because it doesn't rely on Krea and has Battle-charged, it can make fairly interesting use of Hyper-Aggressive when shot at.
Something I just noticed: Sentinels have open fist, so even though they are pretty pillowed, they can still throw enemies away to clear up Soldiers, as well as make up for the lack of good MAT in the army.
I still don't think this list is good by any means, but it does answer some questions (like what to do about Orion shooting spam).
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Spam meta
Apr 6, 2018 20:06:22 GMT
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Post by jagius021 on Apr 6, 2018 20:06:22 GMT
I was thinking a zadeesh list with them too. I like the amount of board denial that list has going on, scathers and clouds look like they would gum things up. The only worry I have is the counter charges getting gummed up. A pack of bugs cones to mind as a way of preventing my heavy front line from getting clogged. But clever positioning will probably save that anyways. I think I just want those lil firetrucks to do something.
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didder
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Spam meta
Apr 6, 2018 23:01:45 GMT
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Post by didder on Apr 6, 2018 23:01:45 GMT
I like the theory behind the Zaadesh list, but gee that's slow. Wouldnt xerxis2, jalaam, or makeda1 be a better fit to mitigate that spd issue
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Apr 7, 2018 0:27:07 GMT
Jalaam and Makedas feats are both wasted on Aradus. Xerxes2 speed buff seems sort of wasted on them too, but my decision was mostly influenced by without a Krea Xerxes2 would just get shot off the table. The whole point of using X2 was to forgo the need for Krea and to make good use of the Agonizers. But they are best served when taking the hit in the face, not struggling for the alpha.
Granted, as mentioned earlier, spamming Aradus is a flawed idea from the start unless facing very specific lists (shooting lists that use Blessed weapons), so this is really just putting lipstick on a pig here.
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Spam meta
Apr 7, 2018 18:33:29 GMT
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Post by dessert hydra on Apr 7, 2018 18:33:29 GMT
Rhino spam.....
Sure I've seen some batreps on advanced manoeuvres.
Its all just for fun nothing as obnoxious as slayer spam
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didder
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Spam meta
Apr 7, 2018 18:42:47 GMT
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Post by didder on Apr 7, 2018 18:42:47 GMT
Fair enough on makeda and Xerxis'. Mybe jalaam could leverage wrong eye for a much better feat performance?
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demonic
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Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Apr 8, 2018 23:52:04 GMT
the mass arc spam is more of a scare list than anything (nemo3 against a fleet of lightning immune beasts? better bring out haley), so for practical uses putting in more than 2 will quickly make them lose their value. Drake spray spam is probably the most realistic as the magical pow 14, range 8 spray template can really clean out a lot of possibilities on the other side of the table. They are also cheap enough that you can throw in enough of them to stand head to head with the other spammy lists. When you combine them with X2, you also get a nasty combo when it comes time for feats.
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Post by sludgeogre on Apr 9, 2018 16:17:23 GMT
Mordikaar drake spam is the only way to run a ton of drakes and do anything with it, since he can use them to murder a caster with essence blast. Xerxis2 runs drake spam really well and I am going to be trying it pretty soon. I also want to try it with Xekaar and Chiron since leadership: basilisk is just super dope.
I don't think we have access to anything like Slayer spam or the old Juggernaut or Mad Dog spam lists from Khador, or even janky Kraye lists that aren't even that great. Slayer spam is amazing both because it's a ton of boxes to chew through and because Gaspy3 can hand out tons of focus and actually fuel all of those jacks. We have paingivers, so we can run tons of beasts and manage the fury, but they are easily removed by a lot of things like e-leaps and sprays, so it's not a gimme, and our beasts are mostly pillow fisted since the paingiver's enrage is factored into most of the faction, and we have a lot of feats that fix hitting and damage.
I'm honestly happy about the whole thing. Prevalent spam lists are rarely a good thing for the game because it usually means that one or two models in the faction are outpacing the rest of the faction in terms of value.
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demonic
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Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Apr 9, 2018 18:31:35 GMT
once Xekaar goes into a CID I would LOVE using him for the spam; just him gaining 2 arm while b2b with a beast would fix him. Xerxis2's feat works on the sprays, meaning he could make them chew up anything without a shield (over 20 arm and it'll take several drakes) and lower than 15 def (with boost). I've seen the drake spam clear out trolls and cryx lists like they were nothing, specifically because of that magical damn spray just getting around everything. In my meta it was ran by a "for fun" player who used Hexeris1 for mainly parasite and soul slave for slinging spells.
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Post by jagius021 on Apr 9, 2018 23:08:54 GMT
To test some ideas, I ran sentinels with Jalaam in WOD. Swift Hunter and warpath was really, really nice. 5 extra inches of movement on these guys is fun to do. It isn't great though. Also my opponent was kreuger2 and he dropped them to speed 1, which was hilariously sad. Run for 2 inches, or trample for 4!
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gordo
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Apr 10, 2018 14:18:55 GMT
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Post by gordo on Apr 10, 2018 14:18:55 GMT
I almost made a spamming Battle Boar list with Naaresh. Under feat and Animus and Painals they are mat 7, PS 18, two attacks, free charging, ARM 20. Seemed legit. But the lack of free points seems to mitigate any gains I would get by spamming budget beasts
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