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Post by darkshroud on Apr 5, 2018 11:27:48 GMT
Sure she can take an arc node at a large opportunity cost, I guess I would say she will fill one of two roles pretty exclusively. You have to take the arc node if you want to be the parasite on a stick. She will be too vulnerable and die to almost anything if you dont. Or you can just be stealthy focus battery to a leviathan or something. As far as themes she is allowed in, its just infernal machines and black industries, correct? For black industries, yeah, she can get the free arc node, but that list typically doesn't have a lot of trouble breaking armor, but every little bit helps. Infernal machines, again, doesn't have much trouble breaking armor, but appreciates it a bit more than Black Industries, as the thralls would rather have some sort DEF debuff to help them hit. But again, ARM debuff can help, and you have to pay for your arc node here. Overall, an entirely offensive journeyman just seems like a bad idea and I think the opportunity cost to be the parasite on a stick will be very expensive. Id rather take aiakos at that point for the speed buff, jump, and grievous wounds I dont particulary care for denny0 in her current state
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Post by gedditoffme on Apr 5, 2018 11:58:32 GMT
I’m struggling to work out why I’d take This over aiakos 1(0?). She really only seems useful as a focus pile.
Her melee skill is way sub par, and I can’t see risking casting her spells. I feel she could be retooled significantly, maybe use ghost walk instead of dark seduction and give her seduction ability. Also wish her melee pow was higher, it grates that she seems much worse than a war witch siren.
If she stays with pure offensive spells, she needs something to help her hit, like auto boost, or another way to apply shadow bind. Could also be a cool play to encourage casting while in melee, like auto hit a shadow bound target.
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Post by tiberius on Apr 5, 2018 12:21:12 GMT
A warwitch siren for the same cost has a MAT 6 and P+S 11. Though Deneghra has better defensive stats at DEF 15 and ARM 14, which are both 1 higher. And she has 4 focus instead of MA 6. Both are values we consider inaccurate to their targets of choice (venom wants to hit single wound infantry typically DEF 13+, and parasite wants to hit heavies or multiwound units at DEF 10+).
The more I think about it and for her cost vs Aiakos, Aiakos is superior in almost every way with stealth (could have swung in denny's favor if he didn't have it), leap (no free strike movement and a placement to boot), buff upkeep with a speed increase, grevious wounds to his battlegroup, same focus.
So other than being able to sling parasite once a round if she does nothing else, Aiakos is clearly the better choice as a buffer and focus battery.
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Post by gedditoffme on Apr 5, 2018 12:56:22 GMT
It’s really a shame she overlaps the same themes as aiakos and wws. Maybe there would be a place for her in satyxis or dark host themes, though a bit of a stretch fluff wise. Maybe represents her brief tutelage with Skarre or gaspy (though the latter is well represented in her current themes)
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Post by tiberius on Apr 5, 2018 13:17:41 GMT
Parasite would be a huge boon in scourge of the Broken Coast, as would be any type of focus efficiency for our casters. I think Ghost fleet would like it too, as most of that theme is pretty pillow fisted.
Dark Host I would say is pretty ambivalent about her. They already hit hard and they exclusively run the desecrator well. Lots of focus efficiency in that warjack from accumulator. Any points you are not spending on banes is probably wasted points in that theme.
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on Apr 5, 2018 16:02:02 GMT
Parasite would be a huge boon in scourge of the Broken Coast, as would be any type of focus efficiency for our casters. I think Ghost fleet would like it too, as most of that theme is pretty pillow fisted. Dark Host I would say is pretty ambivalent about her. They already hit hard and they exclusively run the desecrator well. Lots of focus efficiency in that warjack from accumulator. Any points you are not spending on banes is probably wasted points in that theme. The main issue I see with shoving her into Ghost Fleet is that the theme is already incredibly tight on points. Just running her plus an arc node, it's difficult to justify that cost for a low accuracy parasite. Which would require taking out Blackbanes, a unit of Revenants, or a Wraith Engine (depending on how you built it).
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Post by gedditoffme on Apr 5, 2018 21:14:03 GMT
Thinking about it a bit more, I was probably a bit harsh on parasite with her. If taken in black industries with a list that doesn't need arc nodes, she is effectively only 4 points with a free nightwretch / deathripper, which isn't too bad. She can stay further from the action and cast on a 6-8 to hit (a heavy / colossal), which can be boosted.
A Skarre2 / Skarre3 gunline list might be doable with this setup: letting Denny0 cast parasite then shooting all the leviathians at the target. I wouldn't say I'm excited by this setup, but can see at least some applications.
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Post by darkshroud on Apr 6, 2018 15:10:54 GMT
cid extended through the 20th
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Post by tarviche on Apr 6, 2018 16:13:29 GMT
I don't think you can take Denny 0 in Scourge, Ghost Fleet or Dark Host. As it stands she's only in Infernal Machines and Black Industries, and in IM she basically costs 10 points.
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Post by tesoe on Apr 6, 2018 18:13:09 GMT
I don't think you can take Denny 0 in Scourge, Ghost Fleet or Dark Host. As it stands she's only in Infernal Machines and Black Industries, and in IM she basically costs 10 points. In the dev talk video on YouTube they talk about that and how only being in certain themes is supposed to be a limiting factor for these four models.
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 7, 2018 9:40:51 GMT
Okay so after reading some of this forum (on break at work limited time) i see a few complaints.
1. She is focus 4 with offensive debuffs. 2. She will have to be close to the action. 3. Low focus means she will be blowing her stack each turn.
(Honorable mention: person who said needing 9-10 will only hit 1/2 the time *wanting to prove wrong in rant*)
So here are some points ive not heard.
She can be free in theme minus the warjack points in her battle group. So...
1. Focus 4 is hard to hit with for sure. But DeathJack can cast her parisite at magic 6. (And lets be honest she can still fuel him to max and upkeep the spell)
2. Arc nodes keep her safer as she has a 8 inch ctrl, and parisite has is a rng 8 spell.
3. Focus 4 is no worse any any other character journyman who has to put out spells to their battle group, her issue is she can not do it turn one is all.
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Apr 7, 2018 10:05:41 GMT
She isn't free in IM. DJ can't cast Parasite. Other Journeyman casters don't need to roll to hit when they cast spells. Or, at least, not with their main spell(s).
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Apr 7, 2018 17:44:15 GMT
The loss of ability from MKII for DJ to cast most of his controlling warcaster's spells really hurts. I keep wanting to find a place where he's worth the points, and aside from Scaverous, it's hard to do.
On a related note, I think those that've mentioned him as a best fit with Denny0 are right, along with a Skarre2/3 Black Industries gunline. An additional mention might be Goreshade1; I think Shadowmancer cand get cranked to 11 with an additional damage debuff in the mix.
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 7, 2018 20:42:52 GMT
She isn't free in IM. DJ can't cast Parasite. Other Journeyman casters don't need to roll to hit when they cast spells. Or, at least, not with their main spell(outs). Your right for some reason i was thinking older rules. Still arnodes make her okay range
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Apr 8, 2018 3:24:01 GMT
Deneghra0 is pretty legit as is, with her biggest limitations being the Theme Forces she’s in. She likely appears weaker than the other 0s because unlike Caine, Sorscha, & Severius, Deneghra0 doesn’t easily slot into existing meta list builds. Infernal Machines is the worst of the 6 Cryx Themes by a mile, & doesn’t really have any current meta builds. Of the two biggest Black Industries lists, Deneghra2 can’t take her & Asphyxious3 9 Slayers doesn’t want her because access to Parasite isn’t worth losing out on everything Iron Mongers brings to the list. That said, bringing parasite to any Cryx caster is so strong that I would shocked if new builds didn’t start popping up around her. Scaverous is the one everyone’s currently latched onto, but he’s not the only option. Take Aron Wale’s Deneghra1 Quad Leviathan list from Cancon Masters. conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0Ukv1s1s1f1fe21s1sf02B2B323232___-0B0Fd-1h1h2Ai22E2n2oi5h-h_bBbB Now swap Deneghra1 out for Skarre3, swap Aiakos1 for Deneghra0, give Skarre all the Leviathans, give Deneghra0 the Arc Nodes. Deneghra0 gives Skarre3 access to a ranged Damage buff on top of Guided Fire. So now all these Leviathans get all boosted hit rolls and a 3 point Armor swing. That’s huge. Add Skarre3’s personal damage output to the mix, Deceleration stacking with Carapace, the ability to recur dead Cephalyx Overlords, & add a unit of Iron Mongers to heal Skarre & Levis over an Overlord unit or cut some Solos. That’s a scarier Gunline than the Deneghra1 version IMO. Maybe Deneghra0 is enough to bring back Mortenebra1. One of Mortenebra1’s biggest issues has always been a lack of damage fixing, now she gets a Parasite bot. How much more appealing does her kit become when Parasite gets added. Terminus has been defaulting to Ghost Fleet & Dark Host since Theme Machine came about. Does Deneghra0 convince him to go Infernal Machines? What happens when the Tough cannon fodder protecting Terminus gets an extra 3 point Armor swing? Is that enough of a reason to swap over? What does Parasite + Wraith Engine Dark Shroud + Malediction giving Terminus a personal 7 point Armor swing do to his personal damage output? What more is Big Daddy Lich able to one round with an extra 3 point Armor swing? No, Deneghra0 isn’t going to buff existing lists the way Caine0 slots into Sloan/Nemo3, or how Sorscha0 slots into Vlad1 Rockets, or how Severius0 slots into Vindictus Exemplar, but that doesn’t make her weak. She’s extremely strong in the right list, it’s just that unlike the other 3, her list doesn’t already exist.
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