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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 13:01:08 GMT
Might give something like this a spin
Cygnar Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Heavy Metal
!!! Your army contains a CID entry.
(Brisbane 1) Major Markus "Siege" Brisbane [+28]
- Charger [9]
- Defender [16]
- Reliant [14]
- Stormwall [39]
- Squire [0(5)]
Captain Arlan Strangewayes [0(4)]
Journeyman Lieutenant Allister Caine [0(5)]
- Hunter [10]
Journeyman Warcaster [4]
- Sentinel [8]
Field Mechaniks (min) [3]
Fox Hole can keep Caine nice and safe, Snipe on either the Stormwall (14" covering fire and 18" Big Guns) or on Siege (18" Ground Pounder anyone?)
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Post by geo67 on Apr 5, 2018 13:26:31 GMT
Nemo1 is going to love Caine1. Extra power token generator, plus snipe for a four-focus Dynamo with re-rolls. Something like... conflictchamber.com/#c1201b_-0n8X9BeO9ydXakaz9CanlNiPaj9baeaeCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Heavy Metal !!! Your army contains a CID entry. (Nemo 1) Commander Adept Nemo [+30] - Centurion [17] - Dynamo [18] - Lancer [10] - Reliant [14] - Squire [0(5)] Archduke Alain Runewood, Lord of Fharin [0(4)] - Cyclone [13] Captain Arlan Strangewayes [4] Journeyman Lieutenant Allister Caine [0(5)] - Hunter [10] Journeyman Warcaster [4] - Charger [9] Field Mechaniks (min) [3] Field Mechaniks (min) [3] Centurion gets Arcane Shield, Dynamo gets snipe, and the Hammersmith gets lightning shroud so it can spread those e-leaps all over the place as it beatbacks across the table with those seven POW19 attacks! That is a fine looking list! Looks pretty straight forward too. |
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Post by Aegis on Apr 5, 2018 13:43:01 GMT
Just to check I've understood this right. I give Caine a hunter and he can spirit door 16" + base + 2" across the table after having shot twice with a rune bullet of my choice? That is some crazy, crazy mobility. Presumably (since he's an arcane tempest model) he's potentially free in Sons or Heavy metal? I can see him being very cool in Sons as snipe can be free if he sticks it on an arcane tempest model/unit. (Such as himself.) He seems a bit too good. Where do you get the part where the Hunter shots twice and with rune bullets? From what I see, Caine0 has no ways to give rune bullets or extra shots to his jacks. That said, sure, an hunter can teleport a lot, but I don't think that is the problem... The hunter can already shot and stay away from harm fairly well, so moving it is not going to change that much. The problem is Snipe. Snipe on a stick is bad... Very bad. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 13:54:50 GMT
If I put my 'Objective' hat on, Snipe is not ok. Maybe they should just forgo a support spell, and make him a dedicated gunslinger?
maybe give him a spell like:
'All Guns Blazing' - Cost 2 - Non Upkeep - Duration one turn - Caine's pistols become ROF2, Caine suffers -2 to attack rolls.
It would represent him pushing his limits as a young reckless journeyman would, but he has yet to learn to keep his aim properly while doing it. He also cannot do it and Spirit Door away. He could potentially kill 8 infantry a turn, but effective rat 5 and only 2 focus left to boost attack rolls should temper that. |
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Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 5, 2018 14:10:54 GMT
Just to check I've understood this right. I give Caine a hunter and he can spirit door 16" + base + 2" across the table after having shot twice with a rune bullet of my choice? That is some crazy, crazy mobility. Presumably (since he's an arcane tempest model) he's potentially free in Sons or Heavy metal? I can see him being very cool in Sons as snipe can be free if he sticks it on an arcane tempest model/unit. (Such as himself.) He seems a bit too good. Where do you get the part where the Hunter shots twice and with rune bullets? From what I see, Caine0 has no ways to give rune bullets or extra shots to his jacks. That said, sure, an hunter can teleport a lot, but I don't think that is the problem... The hunter can already shot and stay away from harm fairly well, so moving it is not going to change that much. The problem is Snipe. Snipe on a stick is bad... Very bad. You misunderstood my post. Spirit door allows either a model in the caster's battlegroup to be placed within 2" of the caster, or place the caster within 2" of a model in it's battlegroup and within its control range. So in my scenario Caine is casting spirit door to place himself within 2" of his hunter after having advanced and shot stuff. Due to extended control range the hunter counts as inside his control range up to 16" away (not that he's likely to need it). So Caine can move to wherever he needs and then yank himself back to safety. The hunter needn't go anywhere. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 14:15:26 GMT
Where do you get the part where the Hunter shots twice and with rune bullets? From what I see, Caine0 has no ways to give rune bullets or extra shots to his jacks. That said, sure, an hunter can teleport a lot, but I don't think that is the problem... The hunter can already shot and stay away from harm fairly well, so moving it is not going to change that much. The problem is Snipe. Snipe on a stick is bad... Very bad. You misunderstood my post. Spirit door allows either a model in the caster's battlegroup to be placed within 2" of the caster, or place the caster within 2" of a model in it's battlegroup and within its control range. So in my scenario Caine is casting spirit door to place himself within 2" of his hunter after having advanced and shot stuff. Due to extended control range the hunter counts as inside his control range up to 16" away (not that he's likely to need it). So Caine can move to wherever he needs and then yank himself back to safety. The hunter needn't go anywhere. I have visions of Caine going balls deep and shooting stuff, and then appearing on the other side of the board next to my Hunter which was conveniently hanging out around a flag... |
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313 
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 5, 2018 15:13:07 GMT
Just keep in mind that Caine0's shooting isn't like warcaster Caine's shooting. Even Caine1 has four boostable POW12s, whereas Caine0 has two boostable POW10 shots. Sure, they can each have trick shot, which is certainly a problem for light infantry, but it's not immensely stronger than something like the firefly's shot, which can also deal (up to) four POW10s.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 5, 2018 15:15:47 GMT
Just keep in mind that Caine0's shooting isn't like warcaster Caine's shooting. Even Caine1 has four boostable POW12s, whereas Caine0 has two boostable POW10 shots. Sure, they can each have trick shot, which is certainly a problem for light infantry, but it's not immensely stronger than something like the firefly's shot, which can also deal (up to) four POW10s. I should hope it's not like a warcasters shooting, he is a Journeyman after all |
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Post by Aegis on Apr 5, 2018 15:43:21 GMT
Where do you get the part where the Hunter shots twice and with rune bullets? From what I see, Caine0 has no ways to give rune bullets or extra shots to his jacks. That said, sure, an hunter can teleport a lot, but I don't think that is the problem... The hunter can already shot and stay away from harm fairly well, so moving it is not going to change that much. The problem is Snipe. Snipe on a stick is bad... Very bad. You misunderstood my post. Spirit door allows either a model in the caster's battlegroup to be placed within 2" of the caster, or place the caster within 2" of a model in it's battlegroup and within its control range. So in my scenario Caine is casting spirit door to place himself within 2" of his hunter after having advanced and shot stuff. Due to extended control range the hunter counts as inside his control range up to 16" away (not that he's likely to need it). So Caine can move to wherever he needs and then yank himself back to safety. The hunter needn't go anywhere. Yes, I misunderstood sorry. Sure, that's a lot of survivability, but for 2 POW 10 shots in a 15 points package I think it would remain into the "Strong but thematic" line, that is pretty much the intention (those new Zeros are intended to be powerful pieces), while not going into the "Broken" field. What instead isn't ok at all is Snipe. That is a serious problem (and I say this while I passed years daydreaming about a Snipe on a stick, but my objective self knows that it's broken and, even if passed, would harmstring every future Cygnar release too much). |
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 5, 2018 15:51:14 GMT
My guess is that although everyone's scared that the new Jrs will get only 1 week of testing, they'll go into later CIDs and go through multiple versions. Everyone is freaking out so much on the CID forums about 3 of the 4 of them being overpowered that I doubt PP will push them through as-is without a good amount of testing.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 5, 2018 17:31:44 GMT
My guess is that although everyone's scared that the new Jrs will get only 1 week of testing, they'll go into later CIDs and go through multiple versions. Everyone is freaking out so much on the CID forums about 3 of the 4 of them being overpowered that I doubt PP will push them through as-is without a good amount of testing. I've put in a question about this. It deals with sevvy0, seeing as the exemplar CID will be strongly affected by his rules and be coming up before his release, but the question can apply to all of them. They haven't responded. |
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Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 5, 2018 18:29:37 GMT
If Snipe stays until full release, it means that PP has completely lost sight of how to properly balance the game. This is Eilish 1.0 tier broken. All 4 of them are really good. Eye of Menoth, Road to War, Boundless Charge, Fog of War and Parasite on a stick. Overall power increase for all these factions. Believe me, I agree. They're all above curve, it's just a question of where on the 'overtuned' to 'broken' spectrum they fall. |
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Apr 5, 2018 22:34:50 GMT
The twitch stream said they wanted to have the juniors make an impact. So they are designed to be above the curve I guess.
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Post by Azuresun on Apr 5, 2018 22:38:25 GMT
The twitch stream said they wanted to have the juniors make an impact. So they are designed to be above the curve I guess. Or as it's sometimes known, power creep. Point cost could have balanced them, except now they cost either 0 or "cheapest paid solo in your army" points. |
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Post by oncomingstorm on Apr 5, 2018 23:16:43 GMT
The twitch stream said they wanted to have the juniors make an impact. So they are designed to be above the curve I guess. Which is what's known as 'Firetrucking terrible design'. Or 'power creep.' Or (ifr we're making the obvious comparison,) 'codex creep.' Releasing overpowered crap because you want to push new models is the epitome of what hated about the GW model. IF WM/H goes that route, I'll likely be gone within the year. Note that I'm not saying it will go this way. Eilish managed to make it out of CID without breaking the game in half, so hopefully these can be toned down to a reasonable power level before release. But releasing models with the intention that they be 'overpowered' is pants-on-head stupid, especially in a game built on having a tight, relatively balanced rule set. Azuresun - I proposed that they have a rule that would prevent them from being taken for free in theme. Sevvy0 at 8 points is probably not breaking anything (except the faces of the people he hits) and the same goes for Caine0. Sadly, Soles shot the idea down. |
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