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Post by trollsareblue on Mar 22, 2018 4:03:43 GMT
Oh yeah that shit was funny (in a, my eyeballs are rolling so hard they pierced my brain, sort of way). That was obviously a bad matchup (and poorly played as well), but Rocketmen aren't great, regardless. Give them a Parry mini-feat, make them straight up immune to blasts. Something.
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Post by gobber on Mar 22, 2018 5:46:14 GMT
Black Anchors Heavy Industry. PP's name for their "all new huge based models can only be bought through our online store" policy. Started with the Hooch Hauler, I think. Dracodile>Hooch Hauler>Skarre3 thus far. I don't think we've heard either way about the man o' war chariots yet, but as the light battle engines they seem like something that would be a candidate to release normally like the blockhouse which was given as an example of when they might release non BAHI huge bases in the future.
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Post by riproarinboogerpenis on Mar 22, 2018 6:25:16 GMT
Black Anchors Heavy Industry. PP's name for their "all new huge based models can only be bought through our online store" policy. Started with the Hooch Hauler, I think. what a baffling business choice
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Mar 22, 2018 7:47:38 GMT
release normally like the blockhouse which was given as an example of when they might release non BAHI huge bases in the future. Did they say that, did they?
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 22, 2018 10:50:12 GMT
Oh yeah that shit was funny (in a, my eyeballs are rolling so hard they pierced my brain, sort of way). I like to quote cases like this when people claim that experience > theorymachine. The problem with that is that purposefully extreme examples don't actually forward a case, argument or position. There's even a phrase for this ; reductio ad absurdum. By that i mean the absurdity is that because some theorymachine is clearly batshit, that all theorymachine is useless and also batshit. A battle report from someone that has no clue how to make a list isn't much better than a theorist who has no idea what they're talking about. However, employed by a rational and logical agent, both vehicles have a place in feedback : theory helps avoid things that start slow but snowball like figuring out the timing on MK1 Shadow Shifting Berserk Bane Knights attacking a target with Retaliation (not the actual MK1 name which escapes me, but the ability that said "when i get hit and / or damage, i get to make an attack back out of turn"). In a vacuum none of these abilities was problematic. However in conjunction they created the resolution-based warmachine equivalent of dividing by zero. However you try to resolve that under MK1's architecture, there is a rational, cogent counter-argument how it should not be resolved that way, but in yet a different way. As the different resolution steps can lead to a benefit to one side or the other, this created a timing paradox. How was this fixed in MK1 ultimately ? With "It works this way because we said so" logic (literally - i recall the thread when someone posited a rational counter argument to the dictated resolution steps, and that was PPS_Kevin's public response on the old boards - no slight meant to him, it was literally the corner that a lack of timing structure had painted us into at the time). Had the "theory" behind the need for timing mechanisms as developed largely by Lunatic Calm been a silly high sounding nothing, they'd never have made it into official MK2 rules (and solved a great many issues, i might add. I personally think it was LC's most important contribution to the game that i'm aware of). People shit on theorymachine as a hip rejoinder for what is, essentially, in acutality shitty logical thinking. Shitty logical thinking is shitty whether models have been sat upon a table or not. There's a ton of battlereports that engage in the tabletop equivalent of the worst and best of theorymachine. The fact of the matter is that theory has a place and tabletop battle reports have a place, and when they come together it makes a Venn Diagram of sorts, but neither is all encompassing as the way, the light and the truth of thinking about Warmachine. You need to do both, or you're missing a huge portion of the aforementioned Venn Diagram.
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Post by GumbaFish on Mar 22, 2018 14:46:53 GMT
I have submitted feedback via the forms but not in the form of battle reports. I keep playing a game and then they make updates before I can sit down and write a battle report. I am finding the frequency/timing of these updates difficult to actually post battle reports. I guess I need to do it immediately when I get home from a game but that isn't always feasible.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 22, 2018 15:04:35 GMT
I have submitted feedback via the forms but not in the form of battle reports. I keep playing a game and then they make updates before I can sit down and write a battle report. I am finding the frequency/timing of these updates difficult to actually post battle reports. I guess I need to do it immediately when I get home from a game but that isn't always feasible. It's fine to post battle reports that were played before the latest update, they can still give insight to PP
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Mar 22, 2018 16:28:57 GMT
From the US side of things, Apepticon isn't helping either.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 22, 2018 17:15:55 GMT
Let me say this one more time when it comes to BAHI. It's meant as a way for PP to help curb the price tag of the huge bases. The Hooch Hauler was a mistake in the long run. They have learned from it. Yes, the models are expensive, they would be even more expensive if they were in stores. The more hands that touch a model, the more expensive it gets. The only good thing that happened with the Hooch Hauler is it didn't go over $200 which it would have if it ended up in stores.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Mar 22, 2018 20:54:47 GMT
Let me say this one more time when it comes to BAHI. It's meant as a way for PP to help curb the price tag of the huge bases. The Hooch Hauler was a mistake in the long run. They have learned from it. Yes, the models are expensive, they would be even more expensive if they were in stores. The more hands that touch a model, the more expensive it gets. The only good thing that happened with the Hooch Hauler is it didn't go over $200 which it would have if it ended up in stores. God I hope they learned from it. I don't have a fundamental problem with BAHI but the Hauler is so ridiculous. I've never wanted a model to not sell but I've been crossing my fingers this doesn't just so they know where the line is.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 22, 2018 21:16:39 GMT
Let me say this one more time when it comes to BAHI. It's meant as a way for PP to help curb the price tag of the huge bases. The Hooch Hauler was a mistake in the long run. They have learned from it. Yes, the models are expensive, they would be even more expensive if they were in stores. The more hands that touch a model, the more expensive it gets. The only good thing that happened with the Hooch Hauler is it didn't go over $200 which it would have if it ended up in stores. God I hope they learned from it. I don't have a fundamental problem with BAHI but the Hauler is so ridiculous. I've never wanted a model to not sell but I've been crossing my fingers this doesn't just so they know where the line is. My FLGS is a block from PPHQ. Their employees are in there all the time. I hear things that I can't talk about here so this statement of mine falls under that area. I can't say exactly what they said, but I can paraphrase.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 22, 2018 22:33:33 GMT
God I hope they learned from it. I don't have a fundamental problem with BAHI but the Hauler is so ridiculous. I've never wanted a model to not sell but I've been crossing my fingers this doesn't just so they know where the line is. My FLGS is a block from PPHQ. Their employees are in there all the time. I hear things that I can't talk about here so this statement of mine falls under that area. I can't say exactly what they said, but I can paraphrase. You play at Mox's ?
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 23, 2018 15:24:15 GMT
My FLGS is a block from PPHQ. Their employees are in there all the time. I hear things that I can't talk about here so this statement of mine falls under that area. I can't say exactly what they said, but I can paraphrase. You play at Mox's ? Yes I do. Are you a local too?
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 23, 2018 19:12:07 GMT
Yes I do. Are you a local too? No, sadly, though I love Seattle - been there several times. Regarding Mox's, went in there once on a business trip during some down time. Cool place.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 27, 2018 15:19:16 GMT
I have not been following this CiD much. Mostly because of a lack of interest, but also because I wanted to take a break from the process. The legion and cryx CiD's were exhausting for me, because I literally felt like my opinions were being attacked by other players because they disagreed. I am not saying all my opinions or findings were the 100% right way to go about things. But I do think I had reasonable logic for my statements. Its super frustrating when people accuse you of being dishonest or skewing evidence or just plain calling you and idiot, because you disagree with them.
My only concerns this CiD were pre-nerf Locke and The BE caster, and I think Trancers may be too good for 3 points. But I also think Punch monks are way too good for 3 points and I play protectorate, so maybe its just a perspective thing.
I think there is a lot more to certain casters like Lukas, than people give him credit. He still seems to be limited as a cloudwall caster, even though he has some super strong spells to sling around. He also has a really strong arc node that can arc in melee and has an impressive 15/19 statline against living models or guns.
That's the thing though, there really is not enough time in these cycles to unlock the deeper casters (hence why Koldgrimma and Dreamer are so strong right now) and there is also not enough time to fix all the models in question. The process is mostly just to catch ridiculous overpowered crap from getting out to the real game and to ease the process of design from the design team with these releases. It also gives the community some level of responsibility for the models being released. You can't complain about bad game design if you participated in that design and didn't catch the OP stuff yourself.
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