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Post by killroundears on Mar 20, 2018 9:53:25 GMT
Hey there, im buying into grymkin potentially:
i have a question which is what is the best starter pairing? and what is generally the playstyle? i hear grymkin are a really skill based thing overall so im really happy to give them a go.
what pushed me over the top was the BAHI of the new CG huge bases that makes them as expensive as the entire grymkin faction basically...
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Mar 20, 2018 13:17:52 GMT
I've only been playing Grymkin for a couple months now so take this with a grain of salt, but I can at least talk about how I see the faction and why I picked it.
Basically to my view Grymkin's playstyle is kind of a fusion of Protectorate and Cryx. They are largely looking to play an attrition game with a large selection of cheapish infantry backed up by some of the most powerful warlocks in the game. In addition, many of their combat models also boast a surprising amount of utility, which means that while their list building can be a bit static their application on the table is anything but. The most obvious example is Dread Rots, which are both the faction's mainline melee infantry and primary buffer for heavy warbeasts by collecting and distributing the corpse tokens both of the heavy beasts need to operate at full capacity. Besides them though you have Hollowmen who are a fairly basic ranged unit except that they can give themselves Concealment, revive their own casualties, and come with a built-in threat extension for the rest of the army. Witchwoods are difficult-to-remove combat solos that also pack a threat extender(move the enemy closer)/DEF debuff (turning the enemy around)/defensive mechanism (move the enemy away).
Skin + Moans (with proper corpse support) is probably the best non-character heavy warbeast in the game. Decent speed, great defensive stats (with corpses), fantastic damage output (with corpses), high MAT. Just all-around a great package. Honestly one of the greatest benefits of the faction is there are very few-to-no dud models; all the beasts have a place, all the solos have a place, all the casters have a place. From what I can tell only Piggybacks and maybe Murder Crows are potentially below the curve.
As for starter casters I don't really know. I have the Wanderer, Dreamer, and Heretic; Wanderer is just a ton of fun IMO and was one of the big draws of the faction, Dreamer is probably really really good when you know what you're doing but is super hard to figure out, Heretic came with the starter box and is the most straightforward. The Child is probably the next-most straightforward judging purely on reading her rules. King of Nothing seems trickier. I'd say get what looks coolest but I'm not a tournament player so if that's the advice you're looking for someone else is probably more useful to you.
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Post by killroundears on Mar 20, 2018 20:08:20 GMT
I've only been playing Grymkin for a couple months now so take this with a grain of salt, but I can at least talk about how I see the faction and why I picked it. Basically to my view Grymkin's playstyle is kind of a fusion of Protectorate and Cryx. They are largely looking to play an attrition game with a large selection of cheapish infantry backed up by some of the most powerful warlocks in the game. In addition, many of their combat models also boast a surprising amount of utility, which means that while their list building can be a bit static their application on the table is anything but. The most obvious example is Dread Rots, which are both the faction's mainline melee infantry and primary buffer for heavy warbeasts by collecting and distributing the corpse tokens both of the heavy beasts need to operate at full capacity. Besides them though you have Hollowmen who are a fairly basic ranged unit except that they can give themselves Concealment, revive their own casualties, and come with a built-in threat extension for the rest of the army. Witchwoods are difficult-to-remove combat solos that also pack a threat extender(move the enemy closer)/DEF debuff (turning the enemy around)/defensive mechanism (move the enemy away). Skin + Moans (with proper corpse support) is probably the best non-character heavy warbeast in the game. Decent speed, great defensive stats (with corpses), fantastic damage output (with corpses), high MAT. Just all-around a great package. Honestly one of the greatest benefits of the faction is there are very few-to-no dud models; all the beasts have a place, all the solos have a place, all the casters have a place. From what I can tell only Piggybacks and maybe Murder Crows are potentially below the curve. As for starter casters I don't really know. I have the Wanderer, Dreamer, and Heretic; Wanderer is just a ton of fun IMO and was one of the big draws of the faction, Dreamer is probably really really good when you know what you're doing but is super hard to figure out, Heretic came with the starter box and is the most straightforward. The Child is probably the next-most straightforward judging purely on reading her rules. King of Nothing seems trickier. I'd say get what looks coolest but I'm not a tournament player so if that's the advice you're looking for someone else is probably more useful to you. I used to care more about tournament stuff but now im relaxed about it all. I just want to play stuff i find fun  thanks for the really detailed response! Starting warlock does seem a super hard choice i think i might go with Heretic if he was the starting box and his trump seems pretty straightforward to use |
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Mar 20, 2018 20:30:30 GMT
Heretic is definitely a good choice, especially if you can get your hands on the army box. If you can't (they were limited run like 8 months ago so they're becoming scarce) then you could probably start anywhere.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341 
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Post by doopsie on Mar 21, 2018 0:45:44 GMT
So obviously all of the below is purely my opinion. I am a casual player, though I have been practicing recently for a upcoming local tournament, so I've been facing higher-level tournament lists.
Easiest casters to start with are Heretic and Child. They are fairly straight-forward, with arcana that are simple to understand, but potent. I personally find King of Nothing and Wanderer the most difficult to use. KoN I've found success with as a cloud-wall caster with a decent out-of-left-field assassination potential. Wanderer has very little going for him except for Signs&Portents,and I don't think that's enough. Yes, he's difficult/impossible to assassinate so long as his Trump is available, but keeping the trump in hand means you can't use any other arcana in a turn, and adapting a saying from when I was learning magic "not losing is not the same as winning."
As for play style, VERY similar to Protectorate in that a) tend to take, rather than give, the alpha strike and then counter-punch and b) enjoy a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" playstyle where you can punish your opponent for what they do. They are more difficult to play, as most of the faction is relatively fragile, and it's difficult to set up and time the tricks and arcana correctly, but they are very rewarding when you do so.
For my favorite models/units and why:
1) Mad Caps/Cask Imps - mostly because they are hilarious, but they also pose a legit threat to armies at little cost. At worst, your opponent has to waste attacks killing Cask Imps. At best, your cask imps end up nuking a bunch of infantry, or banging up a light/heavy jack (pow14 to everything under AOE is no joke).
2) Rattler - take one in every list. This thing, especially with some support like Dreamer's Manifest Destiny, Old Witch's rerolls for battlegroup, or even a nearby glimmer imp, will trivially delete entire units.
3) Murder Crows - I have found great success with them in Bump in the Night. If you can ambush and charge the prey target, these guys can be devastating (last two games, they killed a Slayer and brought a Cygnar BE down to 2 boxes with minimal aid from cask imp and 3 hollowmen). If you can't reach the prey target, kill the target with something else and move prey. If you can't kill the prey target, that's fine, Crows still hit hard enough to take out support/solos/contest and/or win a zone(most memorable use in this case was killing Longfellow and a Lanternman, absolutely winning me that flank).
Least favorite units:
1) Frightmare - Honestly never used outside of KoN. Too many other things are better at killing infantry, and there's not enough in Grymkin to make me want a gunline. Now if they added a heavy ranged beast in the vein of the Reckoner, I'd likely change my tune.
2) Trapperkin - I've tried it once? It's a solo-hunter, but I find it too difficult to use and too easy to lose for too little effect.
3) Witchwood - similar to Trapperkin. I have never, ever felt the Witchwood had enough impact to justify its cost. Maybe if I faced more infantry/shield walls, but as it stands its easy for the opponent to kill, and doesn't pose much of an offensive threat.
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Post by killroundears on Mar 21, 2018 22:44:52 GMT
Im making it a personal mission of mine to completely avoid netdeck -- which granted isnt as impressive when you have a limited faction where everything has a well defined role but hey.. ive found netdecking in other factions kills the great interest in experimenting and discovering my own opinions and i really was getting into it while playing crucible guard lists which seem to have less variety in a way (casters feel more pidgeon holed into their favourite theme sans-syvestro)
Heres my first experimental heretic list
War Room Army
Grymkin - the heretic v1. infantry
Theme: Bump in the Night
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
The Heretic - WB: +28
- Cage Rager - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
- Skin & Moans - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
- Frightmare - PC: 9
Death Knell - PC: 13
Lord Longfellow - PC: 0
Witchwood - PC: 0
Glimmer Imp - PC: 0
Hollowmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Lantern Man - PC: 3
Dread Rots - Leader & 9 Grunts: 12
Neigh Slayers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 12
Dread Rots - Leader & 9 Grunts: 12
THEME: Bump in the Night
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GENERATED : 03/22/2018 08:27:52
BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
No idea if itll work out but im super excited to try it. Im moving houses over the next few days so itll take a bit of time to get it on tue table. Any opinions on it?
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Mar 21, 2018 23:54:26 GMT
Well, if avoiding net decking, I'd say run it. May not necessarily be the strongest, but fortunately even our bad stuff can still work pretty well.
If wanting small-ish changes, I'd drop one of the Dreadrots and Frightmare for a second unit of Hollowmen+Lantern Man. Hollowmen work well with Heretic's trump, as they have the range to go after what you psudo-preyed, whereas Dreadrots are easily stopped from reaching the target.
If wanting bigger changes, I'd drop the witchwood and glimmer imp, using those slots to make Lanternmen free and take some Murder Crows. If you can keep the glimmer imp,do it (didn't work out the points), as it does help the army a lot.
That said, I could be totally wrong. Run it, see what you feel is performing well/underperforming, and make what changes you want.
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Post by killroundears on Mar 22, 2018 10:21:34 GMT
Well, if avoiding net decking, I'd say run it. May not necessarily be the strongest, but fortunately even our bad stuff can still work pretty well. If wanting small-ish changes, I'd drop one of the Dreadrots and Frightmare for a second unit of Hollowmen+Lantern Man. Hollowmen work well with Heretic's trump, as they have the range to go after what you psudo-preyed, whereas Dreadrots are easily stopped from reaching the target. If wanting bigger changes, I'd drop the witchwood and glimmer imp, using those slots to make Lanternmen free and take some Murder Crows. If you can keep the glimmer imp,do it (didn't work out the points), as it does help the army a lot. That said, I could be totally wrong. Run it, see what you feel is performing well/underperforming, and make what changes you want. Hey Droopsie, yeah i'm not super attached to the list as my final "version" i wanted to push and pull a bit with the loadout until i liked it. I will definitely try your suggested changes! I can see a double hollowmen build being interesting. The main thing i want to do with avoiding netdecking is keep my actual imagination and theory working instead of just mindlessly stealing a competitive list, especially since my meta is not the competitive one, ie - no nemo3, but lots and lots of circle! |
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thanks for the really detailed response!