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Post by lordsizzlor on Mar 18, 2018 16:53:26 GMT
Hey guys been having a hard time playing into grymkin beast bricks, with their high armor, def, abilities to cancel spells, and rfp all our recursion I'm at a bit of a loss of what to play into them.
So what do you guys play successfully into grymkin, no theory machine please, tell me about your games.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341 
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Post by doopsie on Mar 18, 2018 23:58:08 GMT
Grymkin player here. Can't provide exactly what you want, as my last game I took Old Witch infantry spam instead of Dreamer (wanted more practice with OW3 in prep for tournament), but opponent took the following
Gaspy3
Cankerworm
Inflictor
Seether
Slayer x6
Nightwretch x2
Aiakos 1
Scavenger
And I have no idea how to deal with this. It's simply too much armor. A fully loaded Skin&Moans, under Manifest Destiny, could PROBABLY kill two Slayers in a turn, but a) the slayers out threat Skin&Moans with Mobility and b) it's really hard to load up a Skin&Moans when the only bodies available come from your own models.
Spread your jacks enough that I can't get to two at once, and you can easily set up the trades to make sure you come out on top.
Plus, even if I get to live the dream and kill a significant number of heavies, gaspy3 is now loaded up on souls and can easily use an arcnode to assassinate with his 20+ focus.
The one thing you will really want to watch out for, and why Aiakos is in the list, is Gremlin Swarms. They will mess your jacks up, and need to be dealt with ASAP.
For more general advice:
1) don't spread damage around. Nickle&dime damage doesn't work on Grymkin, as I will just use the Sacrifice arcana and now that mostly dead Skin&Moans is at full health and laughing. Pick a single target, and throw everything you can at it until dead, and only when it is dead do you move on.
2) The ability to cancel spells comes from the cage rager having corpses. Deny it corpses (kill the Death Knell and/or stay out of melee range), and it can't cancel spells. It also only cancels spells targeting a model within 3" of the Cage Rager, so that gives you some wiggle room.
3) Denny1. She is evil.
4) Target priority. The beasts in Grymkin are pretty specialized, and too expensive to typically spam more than 2. So focus on whatever beast works best against you (Rattlers vs infanty, Skin&Moans vs jacks, Rager vs spell slingers, Gorehound vs solos/shield wall, Frightmare vs ? (I haven't quite figured this one out yet)), and kill it ASAP, even if it takes a larger investment. Nothing sucks more than facing a ton of infantry and having lost your Rattlers early.
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Post by Cookielol on Mar 19, 2018 2:25:16 GMT
I dropped Heretic into Gaspy3 & Nine Slayers yesterday. I was rocking 3 S&M's, 2 CR's, Rattler, and Frightmare. I won by time but otherwise could not handle the threats that the Cryx List Projected. I never feared a spell assassination due to Heretic being immune, but It was wearing on my Heavies. I proc'd Reckoning to clear 3 slayers in one turn and used Sacrifice to heal about 30~ damage on the board. In general your ability to get to the zones before Grymkin can will always be your strength. Sacrifice 1-2 jacks for the greater good but layers them so they commit a 15 point heavy for your 10 point that maybe has Ashen Veil, and boom..tides turn quickly. In general Cryx should win this every time.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 19, 2018 7:25:56 GMT
I would just like to mention that killing the Deathknell is not that easy for Cryx, so you should pretty much count on all the beasts being +2 ARM at all times. The Dreamer with a bunch of ARM 21 Cage Ragers that we can't debuff except with Dark Shroud is kind of sad and difficult to deal with for the basic Slayer (without committing too much).
I tried a Venethrax jack spam into Dream and ended up losing because I couldn't deal enough damage, even when he did leave me a charge lane to the Deathknell (which he really shouldn't have) I left it on 3 boxes. Also, one of the hardest things is playing around the Arcana, be sure to know which action triggers which Arcana and try to force your opponent to use one. As soon as he does, he can't use another that turn.
I do admit that Asphyxious 3 probably has a better game because his jacks can actually take a beating.
Also, keep in mind that only Dreadrots and the heavies RFP undead in melee, so your infantry is safe-ish from the Hollowmen at least. (don't trigger the Arcana that takes Undead from everyone)
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Post by Cookielol on Mar 20, 2018 17:15:38 GMT
I would just like to mention that killing the Deathknell is not that easy for Cryx, so you should pretty much count on all the beasts being +2 ARM at all times. The Dreamer with a bunch of ARM 21 Cage Ragers that we can't debuff except with Dark Shroud is kind of sad and difficult to deal with for the basic Slayer (without committing too much). I tried a Venethrax jack spam into Dream and ended up losing because I couldn't deal enough damage, even when he did leave me a charge lane to the Deathknell (which he really shouldn't have) I left it on 3 boxes. Also, one of the hardest things is playing around the Arcana, be sure to know which action triggers which Arcana and try to force your opponent to use one. As soon as he does, he can't use another that turn. I do admit that Asphyxious 3 probably has a better game because his jacks can actually take a beating. Also, keep in mind that only Dreadrots and the heavies RFP undead in melee, so your infantry is safe-ish from the Hollowmen at least. (don't trigger the Arcana that takes Undead from everyone) To clarify, the Hollowmen do not have RFP directly. They are "Granted" it with this rule from their UA (Latern Man) Blood-Bound - If any member of the unit destroys a living enemy, they're RFP'd without providing soul/corpse tokens. Then you can Return to Play one destroyed model to the unit. They return at full health, within 3" of the attacking model, and cannot activate this turn.) EDIT - So while it only pertains to living things, they do have an arcana the removes undead. So on a turn they know they can scapel a good size of your forces, it might hurt. |
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Mar 21, 2018 1:19:03 GMT
I would just like to mention that killing the Deathknell is not that easy for Cryx, so you should pretty much count on all the beasts being +2 ARM at all times. The Dreamer with a bunch of ARM 21 Cage Ragers that we can't debuff except with Dark Shroud is kind of sad and difficult to deal with for the basic Slayer (without committing too much). I tried a Venethrax jack spam into Dream and ended up losing because I couldn't deal enough damage, even when he did leave me a charge lane to the Deathknell (which he really shouldn't have) I left it on 3 boxes. Also, one of the hardest things is playing around the Arcana, be sure to know which action triggers which Arcana and try to force your opponent to use one. As soon as he does, he can't use another that turn. I do admit that Asphyxious 3 probably has a better game because his jacks can actually take a beating. Also, keep in mind that only Dreadrots and the heavies RFP undead in melee, so your infantry is safe-ish from the Hollowmen at least. (don't trigger the Arcana that takes Undead from everyone) To clarify, the Hollowmen do not have RFP directly. They are "Granted" it with this rule from their UA (Latern Man) Blood-Bound - If any member of the unit destroys a living enemy, they're RFP'd without providing soul/corpse tokens. Then you can Return to Play one destroyed model to the unit. They return at full health, within 3" of the attacking model, and cannot activate this turn.) EDIT - So while it only pertains to living things, they do have an arcana the removes undead. So on a turn they know they can scapel a good size of your forces, it might hurt. Sure, but that Arcana is a huge pain to try and make work, as it is only triggered when a model with a corpse token is killed. Given that the only things that can have corpses are the Death Knell (very likely to have one), Cage Rager(somewhat unlikely to have one in Bump unless there's a Death Knell), Skin&Moans (again, not easy in Bump unless there's a Death Knell), and Dread Rots (need to have killed something). I've stopped taking it, even vs Cryx, as by the time I can trigger it, there's likely a better arcana I could have used. I think I've managed to trigger it once, and this is with playing Grymkin almost every week since release. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 21, 2018 7:37:49 GMT
To clarify, the Hollowmen do not have RFP directly. They are "Granted" it with this rule from their UA (Latern Man) Blood-Bound - If any member of the unit destroys a living enemy, they're RFP'd without providing soul/corpse tokens. Then you can Return to Play one destroyed model to the unit. They return at full health, within 3" of the attacking model, and cannot activate this turn.) EDIT - So while it only pertains to living things, they do have an arcana the removes undead. So on a turn they know they can scapel a good size of your forces, it might hurt. Sure, but that Arcana is a huge pain to try and make work, as it is only triggered when a model with a corpse token is killed. Given that the only things that can have corpses are the Death Knell (very likely to have one), Cage Rager(somewhat unlikely to have one in Bump unless there's a Death Knell), Skin&Moans (again, not easy in Bump unless there's a Death Knell), and Dread Rots (need to have killed something). I've stopped taking it, even vs Cryx, as by the time I can trigger it, there's likely a better arcana I could have used. I think I've managed to trigger it once, and this is with playing Grymkin almost every week since release. I don't disagree, but it's still valuable to dictate your opponent's order of activation. Though there are so many good Arcana that I could indeed see taking others instead. This one basically just disables Unhallowed and Terminus' tough and enables the Hollowmen (and lets you take corpses from warjacks I guess). You might want to take another pass at it though, it triggers on damage, not kill. |
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Mar 21, 2018 23:47:03 GMT
oops, my bad. Shows how often I take that arcana. It's really only useful, imo, when spamming Hollowmen and facing bane-heavy cryx, but if that's the case it's not uncommon to skip the Death Knell and Dreadrots, so the only thing that'd get corpses is a Cage Rager in melee, which is so slow that by the time it gets damaged with a corpse on it, the hollowmen are already engaged and so the arcana is basically pointless.
That said, it is really funny to turn a Wraith Engine into a living model.
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