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Post by Trollock on Mar 16, 2018 12:19:32 GMT
So, i look at them and i just dont see the point. However, they do bring an uncommon effect in that they blow up. Having played Durgen a lot (though in MK2) i know this can have tremendous value, so i want to try it out on the table before dismissing it. Them going down to 3 points is a big difference and there might be something there.
If something is worth doing, it is also worth OVERdoing, right? So 4 Trancers are going in a list. How would YOU build such a list? Im hoping to get 2 games in on monday. One will be with Syvestro in a balanced list (to get a feel for the faction) and one will be with the Trancer madness. Its gonna have to be in MO to give them reposition. I want them as buffed as i can make them. I figured id use Lukas. He does not do much for them (who does really?) but i want to try him out too, so might as well. Also, then we have a bit of a "slam everything" theme going. Here is what i came up with.
(Lukas 1) Aurum Legate Lukas di Morray [+29]
- Liberator [10]
- Liberator [10]
- Vindicator [15]
Hutchuck, Ogrun Bounty Hunter [0(6)]
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
Trancer [3]
Trancer [3]
Trancer [3]
Trancer [3]
Crucible Guard Assault Troopers (max) [13]
Crucible Guard Rocketmen (max) [16]
- Crucible Guard Rocketman Captain [4]
Dragon's Breath Rocket [0(6)]
Dragon's Breath Rocket [0(6)]
Horgenhold Forge Guard (max) [16]
- Doctor Adolpheus Morely [4]
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Post by killroundears on Mar 19, 2018 7:29:17 GMT
IMO trancers dont need to be forced to try, they're super super good at 3pts! ive been loving them and are concerned they might even be too good
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Post by Trollock on Mar 19, 2018 12:28:56 GMT
IMO trancers dont need to be forced to try, they're super super good at 3pts! ive been loving them and are concerned they might even be too good If that is the case, playing 4 of them is a good way to find out, right?  |
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 19, 2018 14:08:12 GMT
Tranches are stupid good. Auto smiting Boosted Melee attacks with pow 14 and reach is bonkers.
They hate on infanatry and heavies equally. IMO way to good for thier cost
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Post by GumbaFish on Mar 19, 2018 14:30:58 GMT
How are you using them effectively? I initially thought of them as contesting/scoring pieces but so far that hasn't panned out as they haven't been hard for my opponent to remove.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 19, 2018 14:40:54 GMT
Tranches are stupid good. Auto smiting Boosted Melee attacks with pow 14 and reach is bonkers. They hate on infanatry and heavies equally. IMO way to good for thier cost I mean, they are MAT 4. Sure they can boost with health but that is still not enough to reliably hit all infantry forever, and if you miss, you do nothing that turn, and most likely die. It will be interesting to see if 4 of them can start locking down large parts of the battle field. One could see them as a 12 point unit of 4 "elite" guys. 3 points a piece is certainly way more appealing than 4, especially since they count towards free stuff unlike many other solos in other factions. |
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 19, 2018 15:01:18 GMT
Tranches are stupid good. Auto smiting Boosted Melee attacks with pow 14 and reach is bonkers. They hate on infanatry and heavies equally. IMO way to good for thier cost I mean, they are MAT 4. Sure they can boost with health but that is still not enough to reliably hit all infantry forever, and if you miss, you do nothing that turn, and most likely die. It will be interesting to see if 4 of them can start locking down large parts of the battle field. One could see them as a 12 point unit of 4 "elite" guys. 3 points a piece is certainly way more appealing than 4, especially since they count towards free stuff unlike many other solos in other factions. You don't punch infantry, you die and explode on infantry. Mat 4 smites are more than capable of dealing with heavies trivially for 3 points. |
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850 
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 19, 2018 15:43:38 GMT
Yeah I submitted a feedback form saying trancers were too good from my batrep. My thoughts on them have not been echoed elsewhere. I'm pretty sure they're going to slip through as is and be this faction's gremlin swarm.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 19, 2018 16:55:57 GMT
Yeah I submitted a feedback form saying trancers were too good from my batrep. My thoughts on them have not been echoed elsewhere. I'm pretty sure they're going to slip through as is and be this faction's gremlin swarm. Based on past CiD's and conversations with other players, its not that people don't notice they are too good, its that people want them to be that good and don't say anything about it. During the Legion CiD I had one guy tell me (not on the forums in the real world) that he was fine with Chosen being better than other cav, because it was "about time legion got something above the curve" Thus the issue with CiD. Back on topic, In my last game, the trancers set the line of engagement, forced me back due to threat, and caused me headaches avoiding the AOE's, For 3 points a pop I just don't understand how people don't see how dumb they are |
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 19, 2018 17:07:58 GMT
Yeah I submitted a feedback form saying trancers were too good from my batrep. My thoughts on them have not been echoed elsewhere. I'm pretty sure they're going to slip through as is and be this faction's gremlin swarm. Based on past CiD's and conversations with other players, its not that people don't notice they are too good, its that people want them to be that good and don't say anything about it. During the Legion CiD I had one guy tell me (not on the forums in the real world) that he was fine with Chosen being better than other cav, because it was "about time legion got something above the curve" Thus the issue with CiD. Back on topic, In my last game, the trancers set the line of engagement, forced me back due to threat, and caused me headaches avoiding the AOE's, For 3 points a pop I just don't understand how people don't see how dumb they are while that's underhanded, I can sympathize with the sentiment. You can only play against haley, denny, and double TEPs so long before wishing that people had to counterbuild YOUR bullcrap for a change.
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Mar 20, 2018 5:05:51 GMT
while that's underhanded, I can sympathize with the sentiment. You can only play against haley, denny, and double TEPs so long before wishing that people had to counterbuild YOUR bullcrap for a change. [/p]
[/quote] People counterbuilding vs you gets tiresome too. In mk2 I wanted to switch factions several times because everyone wanted to "practice their anti-Cryx list" vs me, when I wanted to do something not-uber-competitive (like take Sturgis2 for a whirl). The reason I didn't, is because I was too busy to play enough games to get fully burned out. |
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Post by Trollock on Mar 20, 2018 11:59:57 GMT
So i did play a game with the 4 Trancers, but the game ended very early and the Trancers didnt do much of anything. Still i think they are better now than i did before the game. I cant really see them as busted, but they are probably worth their 3 points.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 21, 2018 11:53:46 GMT
If they didn't have to mental force to hit the broad side of a barn on a charge, i'd probably be okay. Some of this is the inefficiency of having to mental force to hit, but gaining nothing on a charge (I do realize the prime draw is not damage output). The name of the ability escapes me (too early, no coffee), but if they got the ability that gives +2 to hit on the charge, i'd probably be okay with them. Then you have to start blowing yourself up to get post-charge effectiveness, which is fine.
The MAT4 just really grates. It feels artificial.
There's just a lot going on with them and i've yet to play a test game where i said "I'm glad i took that Trancer". It's not quite a dead option in a limited faction, but its the closest the faction has to me - even the Ace has more situational use and the Ace is far from terrific either.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 21, 2018 13:49:34 GMT
If they didn't have to mental force to hit the broad side of a barn on a charge, i'd probably be okay. Some of this is the inefficiency of having to mental force to hit, but gaining nothing on a charge (I do realize the prime draw is not damage output). The name of the ability escapes me (too early, no coffee), but if they got the ability that gives +2 to hit on the charge, i'd probably be okay with them. Then you have to start blowing yourself up to get post-charge effectiveness, which is fine. The MAT4 just really grates. It feels artificial. There's just a lot going on with them and i've yet to play a test game where i said "I'm glad i took that Trancer". It's not quite a dead option in a limited faction, but its the closest the faction has to me - even the Ace has more situational use and the Ace is far from terrific either. I've had the opposite experience.
I was on the receiving end of 3 of them in a game: between their speed, DEF, and the knockback, plus the punishment for killing them, they completely set the battle line where my opponent wanted it. I think they compare favorably with Monks, which is not OK in a faction full of other great choices.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 21, 2018 14:32:38 GMT
You mean their ranged def on approach, correct ? Because they are 13 against magic. Zap them with magic and they are hit half the time on unboosted 6's, which even most "Magic Ability" models can muster, to say nothing of casters. You don't even have to kill them, just put 2-3 boxes on them and they'll they'll likely kill themselves after their first mental force. Even ranged boosted 5's connect half the time without aiming, and a POW 9 unboosted kills from fresh half the time.
In my experience they get shot to pieces on approach unless you dedicate clouds to protecting them, which i'm sorry, Gorman and a 7 point trio unit have better things to do than escort and deliver a 2 shot on average smite-on-a-stick. I can see using Burning ash to help out from Lukas, which is where i've gotten the most mileage out of them and yet ironically is where they are needed least due to Force Hammer. Most of the time they get spelled or shot to shit on approach, and when they get delivered, get one good smack off (maybe, even with mental force they hit DEF 14 half the time... which isn't horrible, but for a self-harm inflicting mechanism also isn't great), before the combination of mental force and incoming fire post-smite finishes the job.
As i've said before: i have no issue with the self-infliction and eventual extinguishing aspect of these guys (or Lukas, fwiw), however, at least let them hit decent defense by upping their MAT to 5, preferably 6 (note, 7 would be too much, i 100% grant that), so they have a good shot at LANDING that oftentimes single attack they're going to get. If that's too much at least give them the +2 to hit on a charge so they don't have to Mental Force on that first attack and help their opponent along in squishing the shit out of them the following turn when they are a 13/11/5 defense stat'd model in melee.
I just find them terribly underwhelming.
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