moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Apr 5, 2017 17:12:22 GMT
Heya fellow Menites,
For my Harbinger list I am not confident that this can run into Cygnar (Haley2 is the obvious problem together with ranged anti-infantry). My idea so far has been Sevy2 in Creator's Might, but it gives op a lot of table space on Haley2's feat turn. So the obvious question is, what are your plans?
Harby for reference:
(Harbinger 1) The Harbinger of Menoth [+24] - Dervish [7] - Redeemer [11] - Vigilant [9] - Hierophant [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] The Covenant of Menoth [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Flame Bringers (max) [17] Knights Exemplar [9] - Knights Exemplar Officer [5] Knights Exemplar [9] - Knights Exemplar Officer [5] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9]
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Apr 5, 2017 17:38:11 GMT
obvious answer for Cygnar... burn them to the ground. MK3 they have only average defense and pretty crap armor to match their long range weaponry. Feora1 with some protection on feat turn would cleanse their entire infantry lines. With auto boosts to HoJ's spray, "Even roaches can smell good, charred." Use Avatar to limit the movement of their cavalry and light them up good with whatever you have around. Cygnar's list of fire immune units is pretty much extinct. Feel free and roast'm.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Apr 5, 2017 17:50:51 GMT
Besides Stormlancers and trenchers, do you play against Cygnar with infantry?
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Apr 5, 2017 17:56:38 GMT
At the minute, I get by because my most common Cygnar player hasn't got any stormlances, but he has ordered them...
I feel that this is the best place to use Eye of Truth, a model that I have yet to buy. Blessed Redeemers are a thing. Demonic is right that their ARM is poor. I've seen fire destroy their light 'jacks, though that was in MKII. I've not really seen that in MKIII.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Apr 5, 2017 18:11:10 GMT
not in melee moquan, our cygnar player loves the gun lines and is very effective at using them. He's completely shut people out of scenarios by simply mopping them up with guns. I got a Menoth army specifically to deal with that extreme annoyance. I was tired of people saying that I was just being a whiner when I complained about the issues with Skorne. Pretty much, if I can mop you up with Menoth, yet not put a dent into you with Skorne, something needs analyzed.
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Post by maVoo on Apr 6, 2017 9:06:42 GMT
Besides Stormlancers and trenchers, do you play against Cygnar with infantry? Remember that a lot of Cygnar players at the moment find it difficult not to play in theme lists. Storm Divison and Heavy Metal are VERY popular. With Storm Division you are going to see Stormlances and Stormblades quite a lot. In Heavy Metal, even the humble Sword Knights feature quite a lot, simply because they're the only allowed unit other than Mechanics.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Apr 6, 2017 10:22:01 GMT
Besides Stormlancers and trenchers, do you play against Cygnar with infantry? Remember that a lot of Cygnar players at the moment find it difficult not to play in theme lists. Storm Divison and Heavy Metal are VERY popular. With Storm Division you are going to see Stormlances and Stormblades quite a lot. In Heavy Metal, even the humble Sword Knights feature quite a lot, simply because they're the only allowed unit other than Mechanics. That's very true, it just gives them so much free stuff. My normal Cygnar opponent uses Haley2 with Storm Lances, so that must be stormdivision I guess. Although not as powerful, it is still very difficult to fight against. I'm trying Sevy2 in Jack theme tonight and I will report back!
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Apr 6, 2017 10:28:18 GMT
arg, got my ass handed to me tonight by our Cygnar player using their support caster. 23 inch e-leap is no joke. I couldn't get across the board in time to burn him down thanks to a first turn mechanic death. Learned my lesson, slightly altered my list, I'll be good to go for next Wednesday
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 6, 2017 10:45:59 GMT
As a Cygnar player probably the thing I would want to see the least would be Amon in the jack tier with a Vigilant, Devout and a bunch of Indictors.
Combine natural Sacred Ward with Passage and there is little that Cygnar can do to them at ranged, Fortify stops any Thunderbolt Pushes, arm 21 can handle any magical weapon shots handed out by Arlan, they have blessed weapons to ignore arcane shield, Pathfinder and a speed and damage buff from Amon. meanwhile amon is in cover cannot be targeted by spells and immune to KD.
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Post by maVoo on Apr 6, 2017 12:54:42 GMT
As a Cygnar player probably the thing I would want to see the least would be Amon in the jack tier with a Vigilant, Devout and a bunch of Indictors. Combine natural Sacred Ward with Passage and there is little that Cygnar can do to them at ranged, Fortify stops any Thunderbolt Pushes, arm 21 can handle any magical weapon shots handed out by Arlan, they have blessed weapons to ignore arcane shield, Pathfinder and a speed and damage buff from Amon. meanwhile amon is in cover cannot be targeted by spells and immune to KD. As a (primarily) Cygnar player, I can confirm that a fully tooled up Amon list is pretty much the last thing I want to see across the table from me With that said, it makes for a fun game!
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Apr 6, 2017 13:19:24 GMT
Yeah, but I always feel like having a Devout and a Vigilant is too much on defence, but it makes sense in this specific case. Unfortunately I do not own Indictors nor Eye of Truth for that matter...
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 6, 2017 13:30:47 GMT
Yeah, but I always feel like having a Devout and a Vigilant is too much on defence, but it makes sense in this specific case. Unfortunately I do not own Indictors nor Eye of Truth for that matter... If they stop you from dying then it is exactly the right amount of defence! having mobile cover and spell immunity is not just great into Cygnar, there are loads of things that do not want to see that across the table. If I played Menoth I would buy at least 3 Indictors (probabaly 4), they are a bargain at 15 points. 32 boxes, arm 19 plus 2 for the shield, blessed and magic weapons, spell immunity and anti magic tech, mat 7 P&S 17. The only real drawback is they are slow, which Amon solves very nicely!
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 6, 2017 14:20:55 GMT
Yeah, but I always feel like having a Devout and a Vigilant is too much on defence, but it makes sense in this specific case. Unfortunately I do not own Indictors nor Eye of Truth for that matter... If they stop you from dying then it is exactly the right amount of defence! having mobile cover and spell immunity is not just great into Cygnar, there are loads of things that do not want to see that across the table. If I played Menoth I would buy at least 3 Indictors (probabaly 4), they are a bargain at 15 points. 32 boxes, arm 19 plus 2 for the shield, blessed and magic weapons, spell immunity and anti magic tech, mat 7 P&S 17. The only real drawback is they are slow, which Amon solves very nicely! I find this comment amusing because many in our faction deride the indictor pretty hard (I own 2, FWIW).
On topic of stopping cygnar, I actually find sevvy 2 a bit more reliable into the faction. Amon is really strong but much more vulnerable to eleaps. vindictus with TFG can ignore enemy armies on first turn, then run to engage pretty much anything turn 2. Durst is an obvious choice but I don't do that well into him. Against haley 2 in particular, Reznik 1 is completely OP*. Feora 2 is underestimated as fire hurts cygnar and she's actually both fast and tanky.
*He has a response for literally anything she throws. TK my dudes? please do, I'll move em back and shoot/brain you. Feat? Meh, I'll arc a Perdition. Armor up? Choir + Ignite. Stormlance charge? I lose a jack I guess, but afterwards, I'mgonnawrackit.jpg. Thanks for the focus!
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 6, 2017 14:41:24 GMT
I find this comment amusing because many in our faction deride the indictor pretty hard (I own 2, FWIW).
I do find that surprising, I would have thought not being screwed around with by spells and non-magic shooting would be a pretty big selling point. That plus having blessed and magical weapons, plus a native mat 7, and a anti-spell bubble, and a shield!
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Apr 6, 2017 14:44:54 GMT
I find this comment amusing because many in our faction deride the indictor pretty hard (I own 2, FWIW). I do find that surprising, I would have thought not being screwed around with by spells and non-magic shooting would be a pretty big selling point. That plus having blessed and magical weapons, plus a native mat 7, and a anti-spell bubble, and a shield! That's what what got me to proxy it. Its only real weaknesses are SPD 4 and 1" reach. The fact that the aura also stops Animi is fun as well. edit: I don't give it too long before someone claims that it's over costed by a clear two points because the Crusader is over costed by a point and the abilities don't add up to enough to make an Indictor worth six points more than what a Crusader should cost.
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