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Post by elshinare on Mar 11, 2018 9:07:01 GMT
Why and how Cygnar has more pathfinder models than Circle? almost every game I play is against Cygnar, and pretty much most of the models I play against have pathfinder native or can get it...we are damned druids!
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Post by maplewhisky on Mar 11, 2018 11:02:10 GMT
Short answer: they don't.
Long answer:
Cygnar models with Pathfinder: Ace Black 13th Kraye Maxwell Finn Hunter Hurricane Patrol Dog Rangers Storm Strider Stormwall Tempest Blazers Trencher Commandos Trencher Express Team
Circle models without Pathfinder (discounting Immobile and Flight) Feral Warpwolf Ghetorix Gnarlhorn Satyr Gorax Rager Pureblood Warpwolf Riphorn Satyr Shadowhorn Satyr Warpborn Skinwalkers
So put simply, what are you talking about?
And yes I understand they have access to Pathfinder solutions. We doun’t because the overwhelming majority of our faction already has it. But afaik their Pathfinder solutions are Haley3, Kraye and Rhupert. Hardly an enormous list.
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Post by maplewhisky on Mar 11, 2018 11:03:57 GMT
double post
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Post by elshinare on Mar 11, 2018 20:47:57 GMT
Guess it just feels like they do...Almost every time I play against Cygnar, at least the people I play against have more pathfinder on the table than it seems they should...oh well...rant supplicated for now
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Post by babadook on Mar 12, 2018 10:24:20 GMT
Are you playing against them by accident or are you guys setting up games before? This later would mean they are probably prepared to play against you and thus know they might need pathfinder, which than feels like they have it everywhere...
@maple I think Alain Runewood gives pathfinder as well, but he is hardly ever played.
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Post by sirk on Mar 12, 2018 14:28:30 GMT
I think this post has a point.
While it is true that most of our models have pathfinder, it is also true that most of the ones who don't are those that would be most needed. Also, I think a plain comparison of list of models with pathfinder doesn't really hit the target, the point is more complex than just that.
Of our nine living heavies only three have pathfinder, and two of them are characters so quite restrictive on their own (well, one is also shelf addicted as well). Six of them are without, included three of four of our main living beast hitters, leaving Stalker as only choice in this regard. Also, if I'm not forgetting spells, we only have Kaya2 for addressing the issue as a faction.
I find myself outmatched in the pathfinder war more often than one would expect from the "woods and wilds" faction of the game. Of course when I'm playing living beasts, wolds and infantries (when they exist) are good with it.
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 12, 2018 17:31:47 GMT
The issue would be that Cygnar has access to a few solos that can hand out pathfinder to the stuff that doesn't have it. So everything feels like it has pathfinder if they really need it. Actually almost all of warmachine does (Ruhpert). Hordes does not have an equivalent.
Not so true for their jacks but when you have guns pathfinder seems kind of secondary.
In circle we have 0 options for pathfinder from solos for our stuff that doesn't have it natively, so if you haven't picked a caster that can hand it out you're boned.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 12, 2018 17:43:46 GMT
Actually almost all of warmachine does (Ruhpert). Hordes does not have an equivalent. Not to pick nits, but on a direct comparison, Saxon Orrik currently works for more Hordes factions (Circle, Skorne, Trollbloods, Minions) than Rhupert does (Cygnar, Protectorate, Mercs) and provides Pathfinder to warrior models/units, just like Rhupert. I understand that the beasts are the bigger concern here and you noted Rhupert does nothing for 'jacks, but just wanted to point out that four Hordes factions have access to Pathfinder as needed for warrior models/units. Edit: Wow, Circle really does have only one Unit that doesn't have Pathfinder. Jelly!
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 12, 2018 20:01:07 GMT
Orrik only does pathfinder though. Ruhpert brings consistent utility turn over turn.
I realize that's a goal post move though, but how often do you see Orrik in lists compared to ruhpert?
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Post by paradox on Mar 13, 2018 0:19:34 GMT
I can see giving pathfinder to the Circle beasts that lack it. No real reason the stalker and Loki have it, but the pureblood and Gheto dont. Sure, I guess the feral maybe might not have the natural sense of a beast, but forcingbthe pureblood to rely on a warp is pretty shitty when its also melee pillowfisted and costly. The feral bears a hefty cost too.
There's no good reason at all the goats dont have it.
I guess you can argue the gorax can skip PF, but the rest? We pay alot for even cheap heavies. And most of the faction has it native. I mean, trolls get tough or regen. Its their thing. Filling out PF in Circle would give them back a bit of identity they lost in MKIII. Alot of threat and move shenanigans were cut, probably a bit too far. I doubt anything ends overtuned adding PF to start.
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 13, 2018 15:14:56 GMT
Well if we're talking general fixes then the stone teleport should go to 10" instead of 8" to account for the within/completely within change stupidity.
Seriously a walking beast should not have the same threat range as a teleported beast. With only a single teleport per turn this would end up being pretty reasonable to.
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Post by bloodhawk on Mar 13, 2018 16:54:01 GMT
Well if we're talking general fixes then the stone teleport should go to 10" instead of 8" to account for the within/completely within change stupidity. Seriously a walking beast should not have the same threat range as a teleported beast. With only a single teleport per turn this would end up being pretty reasonable to. I agree with this wholeheartedly. It would hardly break the game, but it would alleviate the pathfinder issue somewhat. Personally I believe we should get more pathfinder on our living beasts. If you read PP's MkIII circle description they described us as the faction of "boundless mobility" or something along those lines. IMO Circle was one of the factions where they removed mobility in the MkIII transition instead of adding it. There seems to be no logical reason that every Legion beast has pathfinder except typhon and the majority of Circle living beasts lack it. If I could wave my magic wand we would get bounding back as an animus, get pathfinder on at least Ghetorix, and the goats, and have the stone teleport increased to 10 inches. I would love pathfinder on the Pureblood or Feral, but I can understand the reasons behind leaving it off of them.
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Post by elshinare on Mar 13, 2018 17:16:00 GMT
So, in today's rant...well not rant because I never played Mk2, explain the changes from MK2 to Mk3, why they were utter garbage. Also, why do Skinwalkers only have 1 attack each, and no pathfinder and no gang naturally? even 1 of the three fixed would be nice. Even giving them weaponmaster would be great.
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 13, 2018 18:37:08 GMT
So, in today's rant...well not rant because I never played Mk2, explain the changes from MK2 to Mk3, why they were utter garbage. Also, why do Skinwalkers only have 1 attack each, and no pathfinder and no gang naturally? even 1 of the three fixed would be nice. Even giving them weaponmaster would be great. You sir are asking for a complete novel of a post with that. One nice tidbit though is that the skinwalker alpha used to give the unit blood drinker and rapid strike (2x attacks per turn). Rapid strike was dropped for the howl ability which makes me a sad sad druid. Rapid strike could be used for some seriously damaging charge attacks using their CRA's and the volume of attacks it gave the unit. For the life of me I can't remember if they had native pathfinder instead of boundless though. I seem to remember pathfinder though, or was it battle driven?
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Post by maplewhisky on Mar 13, 2018 18:55:40 GMT
So, in today's rant...well not rant because I never played Mk2, explain the changes from MK2 to Mk3, why they were utter garbage. Also, why do Skinwalkers only have 1 attack each, and no pathfinder and no gang naturally? even 1 of the three fixed would be nice. Even giving them weaponmaster would be great. You sir are asking for a complete novel of a post with that. One nice tidbit though is that the skinwalker alpha used to give the unit blood drinker and rapid strike (2x attacks per turn). Rapid strike was dropped for the howl ability which makes me a sad sad druid. Rapid strike could be used for some seriously damaging charge attacks using their CRA's and the volume of attacks it gave the unit. For the life of me I can't remember if they had native pathfinder instead of boundless though. I seem to remember pathfinder though, or was it battle driven? Native pathfinder and +2spd if they were damaged iirc. Remember if you CMA with a non charge attack you lose the charge bonus. So a lot of the time they do about as much dmg to heavies now, weirdly. You would normally make your charge swings then CMA the rest.
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