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Post by macdaddy on Mar 23, 2018 12:30:05 GMT
Ambushing Wolves of Orboros are good. What else does the theme do? Oh right, free 2 point solos. Allows you to take Reeves, our One Good Unit. I would argue, ravagers, Bloodweavers, and Sentry Stones are all good Units.
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Post by newangel on Mar 23, 2018 12:47:32 GMT
Right but then you aren't running Wild Hunt. Though I agree with the premise that you are probably better off running Bones or Devourers Host over The Wild Hunt.
I would argue that the theme itself isn't bad, it's the models within it and even then it's not that they are awful, it's simply that it leaves you open to so many poor matchups. I ran it with Tanith for quite a while who does a heck of a lot for it and had a fairly good run. Sic 'em charges off of a Reeve Hunter Weaponmaster charge under Scything Touch and Gang Fighter can get serious work done. The issue is that all the infantry in the list has extremely weak stats. I got to the top table of a local steamroller and ended up facing off against Baldur2. We both knew what would happen but I played it out anyway...Went as expected and lost horribly. The same could be said for any of the armour spam matchups. While there is some game to be had it can simply be done better (and certainly with more survivability) by another theme.
As it stands the Theme is simply a poor man's version of any of our better themes. It doesn't really open up specific matchups that we otherwise struggle with but IMO the main virtue is being able to play lots of single wound infantry. But if you are looking for quantity of attacks why not just take eKrueger or Wurmwood in Bones (AOE's and sprays for days), or Ravagers and Death Wolves in the Devourer's Host (infantry mulching galore).
What was the main topic again???
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 23, 2018 12:51:58 GMT
newangel, tracker would be much stronger is it was clouds AND forests but as it stands now the ability is so situational its painful to look at. You hit the nail on the head. The theme just does not get the job done and does not open up a niche. It also has 0 staying power which is bad in SR2017. Main topic...goats...hmmm has anyone actually successfully gotten a riphorn into melee?
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Post by paradox on Mar 23, 2018 12:53:45 GMT
I have. Its a solid beater. Toss Pathfinder on it, and Im OK with the riphorn. Maybe make it 13pts and its great.
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Post by elshinare on Mar 23, 2018 16:43:23 GMT
newangel, tracker would be much stronger is it was clouds AND forests but as it stands now the ability is so situational its painful to look at. You hit the nail on the head. The theme just does not get the job done and does not open up a niche. It also has 0 staying power which is bad in SR2017. Main topic...goats...hmmm has anyone actually successfully gotten a riphorn into melee? I will be trying to get one into melee today...my list isn't the best but it's the models I have for a 75 point list...it will be a glorious day to die. War Room Army Circle Orboros - Too many extras Theme: Call of the Wild 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kaya the Wildheart - WB: +27 - Druid Wilder - PC: 0 - Argus Moonhound - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Rotterhorn Griffon - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Razorwing Griffon - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Wild Argus - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Wild Argus - PC: 7 - Wild Argus - PC: 7 - Wild Argus - PC: 7 - Wild Argus - PC: 7 - Gorax Rager - PC: 7 - Gorax Rager - PC: 7 - Rip Horn Satyr - PC: 14 - Gorax Rager - PC: 7 Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 0 Lord of the Feast - PC: 0 Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter - PC: 6 Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3 Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3 THEME: Call of the Wild --- GENERATED : 03/20/2018 15:27:08 BUILD ID : 2060.18-02-04
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Post by mindwormjim on Mar 24, 2018 22:38:59 GMT
My perspective :
The Shadowhorn is perfect the way it is right now. Don't touch it.
The Riphorn is fine in concept as a cheap beater. Unfortunately it compares unfavorably to the Woldwarden, who costs the same, does about the same damage, and has more utility. Also, the Riphorn's cheaper cost is not significantly different enough from the Feral for the amount of power it loses. Small tweaks are needed if the Riphorn is to see more table time.
The Gnarlhorn is the one that stands out to me as lacking a purpose. Is he supposed to be a cheaper, weaker Riphorn? His weaker stats means he struggles to accomplish anything, even with a buff like Primal. Is he just a slam-bot? Slams are useful but there's no guarantee that you'll need one in any given game, so dedicating a heavy to that task is a bit weird. Fixing the model isn't the problem, its figuring out what the model's supposed to be doing in the first place.
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Post by paradox on Mar 24, 2018 23:27:58 GMT
My perspective : The Shadowhorn is perfect the way it is right now. Don't touch it. The Riphorn is fine in concept as a cheap beater. Unfortunately it compares unfavorably to the Woldwarden, who costs the same, does about the same damage, and has more utility. Also, the Riphorn's cheaper cost is not significantly different enough from the Feral for the amount of power it loses. Small tweaks are needed if the Riphorn is to see more table time. The Gnarlhorn is the one that stands out to me as lacking a purpose. Is he supposed to be a cheaper, weaker Riphorn? His weaker stats means he struggles to accomplish anything, even with a buff like Primal. Is he just a slam-bot? Slams are useful but there's no guarantee that you'll need one in any given game, so dedicating a heavy to that task is a bit weird. Fixing the model isn't the problem, its figuring out what the model's supposed to be doing in the first place. Shadowhorn needs Pathfinder for sure.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 24, 2018 23:56:24 GMT
Riphorn is squished between the Woldwarden (tankier, just as fast, hits about as hard, has pathfinder and geomancy) and the feral (hits much harder, more utility, faster, situationally tankier). I think it either needs a new niche in terms of utility, or to become our faction's Skin and Moans equivalent - a beater that does nothing but kill anything you can get it to.
Gnarlhorn is in a weird place. It's output isn't...terrible...for a 12 point beast, but it feels like it's paying for all of the stupid slam tech you'll use in maybe 10% of your games. I feel like it either needs a way to take advantage of slams more easily (boosted slam attacks, +2" threat on slams, etc), or it needs to offer more utility to the list in general - whether that by getting bounding back, picking up something like Rush, or maybe even an animus that hands out counterslam or countercharge (both of which get exponentially better the more models have them.
All of the Satyrs should have pathfinder.
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Post by wolfchild on Mar 25, 2018 9:53:52 GMT
I doubt we’ll get bounding back due to stacking speed buffs w hunters mark. It’s a shame tho, cos that kinda tech was all the buzz for us back in early MkII.
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 26, 2018 13:39:03 GMT
I doubt we’ll get bounding back due to stacking speed buffs w hunters mark. It’s a shame tho, cos that kinda tech was all the buzz for us back in early MkII. Thing is that a speed buff animus in circle is a very good options inclusion as it conflicts with primal. As such it offers circle players a choice of, do you want to go further or do you want to hit harder? Asking 12 points to include that choice in a list is quite reasonable to.
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Post by kuririnad on Mar 27, 2018 0:45:51 GMT
I would love an Animus that gave an out of activation move. Righteous vengeance maybe? Or something similar. I just want to be the movement tricks faction. Slipstream too much to ask?
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 27, 2018 2:04:22 GMT
I would love an Animus that gave an out of activation move. Righteous vengeance maybe? Or something similar. I just want to be the movement tricks faction. Slipstream too much to ask? An animus version of Mirage would be super thematic
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Post by elshinare on Mar 27, 2018 2:08:47 GMT
Riphorn sadly looses out to Wardens as a 14 point model, Wardens are more useful, and higher P+S. The other goats, generally pop up as 1 ofs from what I have seen, and rarely at that. Our lights get more play in general, because they are just better models or at least have more uses on the table. Although I want to run a Kaya 3 goat beats list.
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Post by kuririnad on Mar 27, 2018 23:17:14 GMT
Didn't wardens recently see a point decrease? Maybe the satyrs will see the same?
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Mar 28, 2018 17:43:48 GMT
Gnarlhorn would be great if he didn't lose all his initials from slamming.
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