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Post by xskeletalx on Mar 8, 2018 17:20:09 GMT
I’m generally a casual player, but have been playing Warmachine on and off with a couple of buddies (and occasionally a pickup game at the FLGS), and we have a fourth player joining us who is completely new to any sort of miniatures wargame.
Based on his love for history, particularly British history and both World Wars, two of us split a Cygnar battle box, and he’s enjoyed the two trial games he’a played with us. I believe he will get into the game, but it might take time before he’s playing regularly or smoothly.
I want to plan out a 25 point list for him, using the Storm Division theme as it appears to be at least fairly straightforward. I want to keep him using Maddox for a good while, so that he gets used to her tactics, feat, spells etc without worrying about caster confusion. I picked up a dirt-cheap ($19) Stormblade unit box to give him, so that unit is required in this list! I would love to hear thoughts, suggestions, or concerns regarding making this first 25 points straightforward for a new player, if you’d be so kind!
War Room Army
Cygnar - New Army
Theme: Storm Division
1 / 1 Free Cards 25 / 25 Army
Major Beth Maddox - WJ: +30
- Firefly - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Ironclad - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Lancer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
Stormblade Captain - PC: 0
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord - PC: 4
Stormblade Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
- Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 5
THEME: Storm Division
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GENERATED : 03/08/2018 12:05:12
BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
Going with this, the only things he would need to purchase would be the Stormblade Officer kit, Rhupert, and the Stormblade Captain.
Does this look like a decent list for a beginner, for casual games against Khador/Ret, Menoth/Legion, and Trollbloods?
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313 
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Post by gmonkey on Mar 8, 2018 17:41:19 GMT
OF all the casters in Cygnar I play, Maddox is probably the only one I wouldn't take Rhupert with, since she can provide pathfinder. I'm also not sure that the stormblade captain is the model I'd pick first. It looks like you're including firefly/ironclad/lancer because those are the models that came with the battlebox.
Let me recommend for you four must-haves.
1. Journeyman warcaster, because having arcane shield is never bad.
2. Squire, because it's in >50% of my lists. Extra focus, greater control area, and re-rolls on spells are always welcome.
3. Arlan Strangewayes. He repairs, gives focus, and provides magic weapons. Plus, it's hard to find a tougher flag-holder.
4. Stormclad, because it's perfect with a storm division list. Also, if you marshal it to Arlan, you're looking at four POW21 attacks, which is nuts. Marshaling it to a stormblade captain is even better.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Mar 8, 2018 18:35:18 GMT
Collecting first models and planning first army is great fun and a very personal thing - you are building and painting something of your own. I can see that you feel the urge to funnel this player in the direction YOU would like his collection to go, as if it were your own.
My advice would be to avoid interfering in such a strong way unless explicitly asked for it. Let this player experience this personal process of building something he will call HIS army. Perhaps ask what his plans are, provide advice when asked or point out obvious skornergies, but do not build the army for someone - you're just robbing them of a really fun part of the hobby.
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Post by xskeletalx on Mar 8, 2018 18:55:30 GMT
I agree with the sentiments about a player needing to build their own collection their own way, 100%.
As I mentioned, this person is not someone who has done anything of this sort before, and was introduced to the hobby by our invitation, not because he was looking to get into it. My intent is to simply help with building his collection into something that can play small but full games; a decent mix of solos and units to go with his battlebox to minimize the amount he has to spend right away, but will be fun and functional to play with.
He has spent exactly $0 so far, and I don't know how big of a collection he's willing to build or how much money he wants to put into it. My line of thinking is if I can help him to select something small yet solid, while minimizing how much money he has to put in to get there, I increase the odds of him sticking with the hobby.
Seeing as he's still learning even the basic rules, I feel like this level of guidance would be useful. Is what I'm proposing really any more controlling than buying a pre-made faction/theme box? I'd be perfectly happy watching him grow the collection and paint it however he wants to, I just want to make sure he doesn't do what I did at the very beginning (new to the game but not to wargaming) and buy a bunch of things that I rarely or never use, and didn't enjoy using while I was learning.
My original foray into PP was buying the MkII Trolls battlebox back in 2011, because they looked cool. My first three demo/BB games were against one Hordes faction and two Warmachine factions; Legion, Khador, Menoth. The Focus mechanic felt far more natural to me than Fury, and I didn't like the way the Trollblood BB performed. This led to me dropping the faction altogether (gifting it to our current Trolls player who DID actually enjoy how Trolls play) and picking up Khador because I liked the way the 'jacks worked. I then found out after buying into a ~35 point list I planned myself (with multiple jacks and infantry that didn't fill the need I expected them to), that Khador in MkII didn't play well with many warjacks, and instead was focused more on infantry. I ended up sticking it out and grew to love Khador, but my transition into the game would have been much simpler had I had a bit of guidance.
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Post by xskeletalx on Mar 8, 2018 19:16:46 GMT
OF all the casters in Cygnar I play, Maddox is probably the only one I wouldn't take Rhupert with, since she can provide pathfinder. I'm also not sure that the stormblade captain is the model I'd pick first. It looks like you're including firefly/ironclad/lancer because those are the models that came with the battlebox. Let me recommend for you four must-haves. 1. Journeyman warcaster, because having arcane shield is never bad. 2. Squire, because it's in >50% of my lists. Extra focus, greater control area, and re-rolls on spells are always welcome. 3. Arlan Strangewayes. He repairs, gives focus, and provides magic weapons. Plus, it's hard to find a tougher flag-holder. 4. Stormclad, because it's perfect with a storm division list. Also, if you marshal it to Arlan, you're looking at four POW21 attacks, which is nuts. Marshaling it to a stormblade captain is even better. I will admit I forgot Maddox had Onslaught, but Pathfinder was actually secondary to Tough when I thought of what I thought he would use Rhupert for. Yes, as for warjacks, I included all three from the battlebox, specifically because he already has them. If I'm going to recommend he spend money, I really don't want to suggest he completely replace the battlegroup he has, (again, until he's got a deep enough understanding and interest in building up further) but small changes or additions would probably go over easier. I've heard many Cygnar players speak highly of both the JMWC and Squire. I was originally thinking of building a JMWC into my proposed 25 point list, but was struggling to find the points to add another jack for him to marshall. This is definitely high up on my suggestion list for him though, as I've heard Arcane Shield tends to factor into a lot of Cygnar play. Arlan was another I considered (I'm working on a Retribution army for myself and the Arcanists have proven immensely useful), and if he wants to play with more warjacks, I will definitely advise him to pick up Arlan. I certainly see the Synergies between the Stormclad and the Stormblade Infantry, would you add a Stormclad to the battlegroup, or replace one or more warjacks with it instead, and why? How would you adjust the list to work it into such a small army? |
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Post by geo67 on Mar 8, 2018 19:49:43 GMT
OF all the casters in Cygnar I play, Maddox is probably the only one I wouldn't take Rhupert with, since she can provide pathfinder. I'm also not sure that the stormblade captain is the model I'd pick first. It looks like you're including firefly/ironclad/lancer because those are the models that came with the battlebox. Let me recommend for you four must-haves. 1. Journeyman warcaster, because having arcane shield is never bad. 2. Squire, because it's in >50% of my lists. Extra focus, greater control area, and re-rolls on spells are always welcome. 3. Arlan Strangewayes. He repairs, gives focus, and provides magic weapons. Plus, it's hard to find a tougher flag-holder. 4. Stormclad, because it's perfect with a storm division list. Also, if you marshal it to Arlan, you're looking at four POW21 attacks, which is nuts. Marshaling it to a stormblade captain is even better. I will admit I forgot Maddox had Onslaught, but Pathfinder was actually secondary to Tough when I thought of what I thought he would use Rhupert for. Yes, as for warjacks, I included all three from the battlebox, specifically because he already has them. If I'm going to recommend he spend money, I really don't want to suggest he completely replace the battlegroup he has, (again, until he's got a deep enough understanding and interest in building up further) but small changes or additions would probably go over easier. I've heard many Cygnar players speak highly of both the JMWC and Squire. I was originally thinking of building a JMWC into my proposed 25 point list, but was struggling to find the points to add another jack for him to marshall. This is definitely high up on my suggestion list for him though, as I've heard Arcane Shield tends to factor into a lot of Cygnar play. Arlan was another I considered (I'm working on a Retribution army for myself and the Arcanists have proven immensely useful), and if he wants to play with more warjacks, I will definitely advise him to pick up Arlan. I certainly see the Synergies between the Stormclad and the Stormblade Infantry, would you add a Stormclad to the battlegroup, or replace one or more warjacks with it instead, and why? How would you adjust the list to work it into such a small army? One thing I will say, I appreciated people in my meta steering me clear of certain models that were just not usable, no matter how cool they looked. I'm pointed at the Night Troll, Skinner, Long gunners(which I didn't listen to), etc, etc. At the end of the day, it can be an expensive hobby, and spending money on un needed stuff can hurt your love of the game. |
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Mar 8, 2018 20:19:19 GMT
Until you get to a larger size list, you might just be looking at something like conflictchamber.com/#c1200p_-0efN9G9Han7za5a6a9Cygnar Army - 25 / 25 points [Theme] Storm Division (Maddox 1) Major Beth Maddox [+30] - Ironclad [12] - Stormclad [18] Captain Arlan Strangewayes [0(4)] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Stormblade Infantry [10] - Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard [5] - Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner (3) [6] |
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Post by aniron on Mar 9, 2018 7:05:34 GMT
If he's into WW1, why go Storm Division as opposed to Gravediggers?
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Mar 9, 2018 8:18:58 GMT
Seeing as he's still learning even the basic rules, I feel like this level of guidance would be useful. Is what I'm proposing really any more controlling than buying a pre-made faction/theme box? I'd be perfectly happy watching him grow the collection and paint it however he wants to, I just want to make sure he doesn't do what I did at the very beginning (new to the game but not to wargaming) and buy a bunch of things that I rarely or never use, and didn't enjoy using while I was learning. Definitely true! A middle ground should be found between not giving good advice/ not helping with avoiding mistakes and building the entire army for someone. Maybe first ask which theme and which models appeal the most to him and try to suggest something that incorporates those ? Or let him create his army and then point out things that won't work and how they can be changed without compromising the general idea behind the collection/army ? |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 9, 2018 9:58:26 GMT
For someone new to the game and starting with Cygnar I would recommend keeping them playing Heavy Metal for a decent while, and then once they have a better grasp of the game think about what other theme they want to explore. The great thing about Heavy Metal is all the jacks are eligible in the other themes, so it is a good investment building up your stable of available jacks. Just please keep them away from Longgunners and pre-cursors
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Post by xskeletalx on Mar 9, 2018 16:08:39 GMT
If he's into WW1, why go Storm Division as opposed to Gravediggers? Two reasons, really. I took a look at various units and themes on Battle College and Storm Division looks to be more forgiving, at least in my opinion. Sturdier troops who can crack armor a bit easier than Trenchers (again, at least by reading through Battle College), lightning immunity, and advance move. I feel like these will be particularly useful while he's playing smaller games, as it means he has a reasonable chance of dealing with Warjacks with most anything in his list. I also think he's better off running Maddox for a while until he learns the game, and I think her spell list will benefit Storm units more than the Trenchers. To be fair, I'm not dead-set on suggesting he use a theme if he'd prefer to run a themeless mix, so it's very possible he might end up with Trenchers sooner rather than later. CyelI'll happily help him decide what direction he wants to take his army/collection if he decides to build up, but just like buying one of the themed boxes, I figured giving him a solid starting point was the way to go. We'll see what happens as he plays a bit more, and what he wants to do with it. I'm not interested in building his collection for him, just a solid foundation of basics. @ 36cygnar24guy36 I definitely see your point about a collection of warjacks being easily usable no matter which theme you might decide to go with. I suppose my thought process was that Maddox offered more to the various infantry available in Storm Division due to Dauntless Resolve and potentially Snipe (say, if the Stormblades were prevented from charging for some reason, but were close enough for Snipe'd shots), as well as more potential attacks for Feat turn. Flank on the Storm Knights seems pretty nice, but do you think a Heavy Metal list could struggle under Maddox, say by either focus-starving her or having a lower number of attacks overall? |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 9, 2018 16:44:54 GMT
xskeletalxI will not pretend that Maddox is particularly optimised in Heavy Metal, but I think she can run a jack heavy list comfortably enough for a new player that they do not feel hindered by it. The Squire and Arlan can help with her focus load, them along with the Junior Warcaster are 3 staple support solos of Cygnar. They can be used in 3 out of 4 theme forces, so will always be useful in a collection. The other piece of advice for your friend I would give is to magnetise the heavy warjack kits if they are able, just to get more value and variety for their money
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Post by xskeletalx on Mar 13, 2018 13:57:19 GMT
One of my local shops had some previously owned minis on offer, so I snapped up a Charger and Journeyman Warcaster for about... $13 altogether? Seemed worth it, especially since those two together make a decent package, from what I've read.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 13, 2018 16:29:54 GMT
One of my local shops had some previously owned minis on offer, so I snapped up a Charger and Journeyman Warcaster for about... $13 altogether? Seemed worth it, especially since those two together make a decent package, from what I've read. Yeah absolutely, the Charger only needs one focus from Junior to fully boost both its shots, after upkeeping Arcane Shield the Junior can sit on one focus to protect themselves |
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 13, 2018 17:45:55 GMT
OF all the casters in Cygnar I play, Maddox is probably the only one I wouldn't take Rhupert with, since she can provide pathfinder. I'm also not sure that the stormblade captain is the model I'd pick first. It looks like you're including firefly/ironclad/lancer because those are the models that came with the battlebox. Let me recommend for you four must-haves. 1. Journeyman warcaster, because having arcane shield is never bad. 2. Squire, because it's in >50% of my lists. Extra focus, greater control area, and re-rolls on spells are always welcome. 3. Arlan Strangewayes. He repairs, gives focus, and provides magic weapons. Plus, it's hard to find a tougher flag-holder. 4. Stormclad, because it's perfect with a storm division list. Also, if you marshal it to Arlan, you're looking at four POW21 attacks, which is nuts. Marshaling it to a stormblade captain is even better. I will admit I forgot Maddox had Onslaught, but Pathfinder was actually secondary to Tough when I thought of what I thought he would use Rhupert for. Yes, as for warjacks, I included all three from the battlebox, specifically because he already has them. If I'm going to recommend he spend money, I really don't want to suggest he completely replace the battlegroup he has, (again, until he's got a deep enough understanding and interest in building up further) but small changes or additions would probably go over easier. I've heard many Cygnar players speak highly of both the JMWC and Squire. I was originally thinking of building a JMWC into my proposed 25 point list, but was struggling to find the points to add another jack for him to marshall. This is definitely high up on my suggestion list for him though, as I've heard Arcane Shield tends to factor into a lot of Cygnar play. Arlan was another I considered (I'm working on a Retribution army for myself and the Arcanists have proven immensely useful), and if he wants to play with more warjacks, I will definitely advise him to pick up Arlan. I certainly see the Synergies between the Stormclad and the Stormblade Infantry, would you add a Stormclad to the battlegroup, or replace one or more warjacks with it instead, and why? How would you adjust the list to work it into such a small army? Maddox has Dauntless Resolve, which gives +3 armor and Tough to a friendly faction unit. Rhupert is truly a waste of points in that list. |
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