Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 6, 2018 19:09:29 GMT
Like the title says, what are you planning on starting with in your playtesting? Do you have specific goals to get started? Did something stand out that you really want to try out first? Did something stand out as so over the top that you want to work on toning it down?
I personally am super excited for the Railless Interceptors and the caster (forget her name) that is in one. That's probably where I am going to start, along with Prospero and the jacks (these especially as a Merc player, the Toro having Maker's Mark is super important).
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 6, 2018 23:50:34 GMT
The Assault Troopers seem to be punching well above their points cost in terms of abilities, so I'd like to give them a spin. Also the Rocketmen under Syvestro to see if Transmutation and their mini-feat making them SPD9 DEF18 flying jammers is as mental as it seems.
The Suppressor seems... bad. Unless it's one of very few sources of Rust, it doesn't seem like it's worth the investment. Again, table time needed.
Vulcan looks nice; I'm not especially keen on an immunity remover, though. Or Syvestro's 'totally not stealth, guys'.
With Vulcan's immunity thing, it's missing the 'and cannot gain it' clause you see on some pathfinder removing things. Does that mean you could recast, say, Draconic Blessing to regain it?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 6, 2018 23:55:14 GMT
I will probably start next week in my friends basement. Gonna have to sit most of week 1 out. Thanks, work!
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Post by killroundears on Mar 7, 2018 0:18:03 GMT
The Assault Troopers seem to be punching well above their points cost in terms of abilities, so I'd like to give them a spin. Also the Rocketmen under Syvestro to see if Transmutation and their mini-feat making them SPD9 DEF18 flying jammers is as mental as it seems. The Suppressor seems... bad. Unless it's one of very few sources of Rust, it doesn't seem like it's worth the investment. Again, table time needed. Vulcan looks nice; I'm not especially keen on an immunity remover, though. Or Syvestro's 'totally not stealth, guys'. With Vulcan's immunity thing, it's missing the 'and cannot gain it' clause you see on some pathfinder removing things. Does that mean you could recast, say, Draconic Blessing to regain it? From my personal testing so far (without theme benefits and missing information) assault troopers actually seem quite reasonable in context of where medium infantry should be. Mostly because they're melee only. so ive seen them die pretty quick to good melee units, but be resiliant vs unboosted shooting. which is a fine place to be. Maybe the actual CG CID will find a broken combo, but in both resistance (crosse2, ashlynn tested) and with baldwin, i havent found them to be overpowering The suppressor seems to be pretty decent with prospero, but may be kinda weak still i havent had a good time to test it. its really paper at 11/18 and spray6 Vulcan has been impressing me on some fronts and not impressing me on others, holding my opinion on it until i can test it further. Its got a terrible attack economy, its best gun is stuck on one side which can be a bit awkward when aiming its gun and sprays at different things, and its very easy to debuff and kill. But its ranged output with hotshot and prospero's vet leader has been supreme. No clue about it. need more experience.
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Post by Azuresun on Mar 7, 2018 0:48:26 GMT
Sylvestro's where I'll start if I'm able to get testing in--I want to see how oppressive free Purifications or ranged immunity can be in actual play (I'll be taking Madelyn with him if possible, to maximise the anti-assassination angle). I intend to get feedback from my opponents, because something can be fun to play and wretched to play against. Don't forget the purpose of CID is to expose flaws rather than test whatever looks coolest. That said, I do intend to test a huge-base list at some point.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 7, 2018 1:57:20 GMT
Second Syvestro. My friend plays Cygnar and I want to see if they have any game into him when he can basically run the board.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 7, 2018 2:17:20 GMT
Don't forget the purpose of CID is to expose flaws rather than test whatever looks coolest. That said, I do intend to test a huge-base list at some point. My whole thing is with the possibility of so many attacks coming from one model (3 sprays!), I was worried about that being too much. And when I can effectively drop 3 of them and have plenty of points for other stuff, it could get a little oppressive.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 7, 2018 2:31:13 GMT
RE weak Suppressors, keep in mind they're only 13 points. They sit one higher than a Castigator and Ironclad, and right on with an Inflictor and Juggernaut. All of those jacks are pretty one dimensional. The Suppressor has a ton going on for it at that point bracket, with its downside being fragility. Looking forward to really trying it out because I think it's cool.
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Post by Cryptix on Mar 7, 2018 4:32:08 GMT
RE weak Suppressors, keep in mind they're only 13 points. They sit one higher than a Castigator and Ironclad, and right on with an Inflictor and Juggernaut. All of those jacks are pretty one dimensional. The Suppressor has a ton going on for it at that point bracket, with its downside being fragility. Looking forward to really trying it out because I think it's cool. Then again, you also get things like the Kodiak and the Seether which are pretty damn awesome.
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Post by killroundears on Mar 7, 2018 6:18:11 GMT
RE weak Suppressors, keep in mind they're only 13 points. They sit one higher than a Castigator and Ironclad, and right on with an Inflictor and Juggernaut. All of those jacks are pretty one dimensional. The Suppressor has a ton going on for it at that point bracket, with its downside being fragility. Looking forward to really trying it out because I think it's cool. It can make your troops unjammable at times. In a test game i had it charge a model and then shoot off sprays in different directions to kill 3 jamming models (catching 2 with the first and one with the second) thanks to prospero's guided fire. Had the unit had an upkeep, it would have dispelled it too. Ive yet to use the -def spray, as 13pts is a lot of points to do no damage and -def something unless its a caster you're preparing to kill. Ive yet to use the rust spray, but thats mostly because my test games have had a vulcan and the vulcan does it better since it also does damage at the same time. But those incendiary sprays have such good synergy with crucible guard immune models
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 7, 2018 8:12:22 GMT
The Assault Troopers seem to be punching well above their points cost in terms of abilities, so I'd like to give them a spin. Also the Rocketmen under Syvestro to see if Transmutation and their mini-feat making them SPD9 DEF18 flying jammers is as mental as it seems. The Suppressor seems... bad. Unless it's one of very few sources of Rust, it doesn't seem like it's worth the investment. Again, table time needed. Vulcan looks nice; I'm not especially keen on an immunity remover, though. Or Syvestro's 'totally not stealth, guys'. With Vulcan's immunity thing, it's missing the 'and cannot gain it' clause you see on some pathfinder removing things. Does that mean you could recast, say, Draconic Blessing to regain it? From my personal testing so far (without theme benefits and missing information) assault troopers actually seem quite reasonable in context of where medium infantry should be. Mostly because they're melee only. so ive seen them die pretty quick to good melee units, but be resiliant vs unboosted shooting. which is a fine place to be. Maybe the actual CG CID will find a broken combo, but in both resistance (crosse2, ashlynn tested) and with baldwin, i havent found them to be overpowering The suppressor seems to be pretty decent with prospero, but may be kinda weak still i havent had a good time to test it. its really paper at 11/18 and spray6 Vulcan has been impressing me on some fronts and not impressing me on others, holding my opinion on it until i can test it further. Its got a terrible attack economy, its best gun is stuck on one side which can be a bit awkward when aiming its gun and sprays at different things, and its very easy to debuff and kill. But its ranged output with hotshot and prospero's vet leader has been supreme. No clue about it. need more experience. Oh, I'm sure they're great. My worry is more that despite being the second cheapest medium infantry in the game after the Black Ogrun Boarding Party, they are harder to remove with shooting than Shield Walled Cetrati or Man-o-Wars, and still tougher than most medium infantry in melee. Their basic stats are good for the price, and then on top of that they get Ashen Veil, Carapace, two Immunities, tough, and... well, I'm not sure how the hitting power will play out, but they don't seem to be lacking
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Post by killroundears on Mar 7, 2018 9:01:03 GMT
From my personal testing so far (without theme benefits and missing information) assault troopers actually seem quite reasonable in context of where medium infantry should be. Mostly because they're melee only. so ive seen them die pretty quick to good melee units, but be resiliant vs unboosted shooting. which is a fine place to be. Maybe the actual CG CID will find a broken combo, but in both resistance (crosse2, ashlynn tested) and with baldwin, i havent found them to be overpowering The suppressor seems to be pretty decent with prospero, but may be kinda weak still i havent had a good time to test it. its really paper at 11/18 and spray6 Vulcan has been impressing me on some fronts and not impressing me on others, holding my opinion on it until i can test it further. Its got a terrible attack economy, its best gun is stuck on one side which can be a bit awkward when aiming its gun and sprays at different things, and its very easy to debuff and kill. But its ranged output with hotshot and prospero's vet leader has been supreme. No clue about it. need more experience. Oh, I'm sure they're great. My worry is more that despite being the second cheapest medium infantry in the game after the Black Ogrun Boarding Party, they are harder to remove with shooting than Shield Walled Cetrati or Man-o-Wars, and still tougher than most medium infantry in melee. Their basic stats are good for the price, and then on top of that they get Ashen Veil, Carapace, two Immunities, tough, and... well, I'm not sure how the hitting power will play out, but they don't seem to be lacking i find other medium infantry like champions much harder to remove than assault troopers to be honest in melee. 5 boxes 13/16 (most of the time) and 11/16 otherwise to melee is quite fair when medium infantry have a problem in that you're getting half the amount of attacks, half the bodies, and to decent melee take half the amount of attacks to remove. Like, if this troop wants to be really hard to shoot but die fine to melee i'm okay with that. i don't think every troop should be vulnerable to every attack. As long as your list has some melee in it, they die quickly. but don't take my word for it, test them out. They're great value but i havent seen anything inherently broken about them. Just a standard of where medium infantry should be. I'll be happy as long as they have a balanced place in the roster and you dont get lists like Maelok's Gator Mountain
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 7, 2018 9:21:33 GMT
Oh, I'm sure they're great. My worry is more that despite being the second cheapest medium infantry in the game after the Black Ogrun Boarding Party, they are harder to remove with shooting than Shield Walled Cetrati or Man-o-Wars, and still tougher than most medium infantry in melee. Their basic stats are good for the price, and then on top of that they get Ashen Veil, Carapace, two Immunities, tough, and... well, I'm not sure how the hitting power will play out, but they don't seem to be lacking i find other medium infantry like champions much harder to remove than assault troopers to be honest in melee. 5 boxes 13/16 (most of the time) and 11/16 otherwise to melee is quite fair when medium infantry have a problem in that you're getting half the amount of attacks, half the bodies, and to decent melee take half the amount of attacks to remove. Like, if this troop wants to be really hard to shoot but die fine to melee i'm okay with that. i don't think every troop should be vulnerable to every attack. As long as your list has some melee in it, they die quickly. but don't take my word for it, test them out. They're great value but i havent seen anything inherently broken about them. Just a standard of where medium infantry should be. I'll be happy as long as they have a balanced place in the roster and you dont get lists like Maelok's Gator Mountain I think you're missing the point. They are literally, statistically better than any other medium infantry except perhaps the Champions, and they get to cost less points whilst doing it. If you consider these guys to be fair, then frankly all other medium infantry is terrible by comparison. Given that they're cheaper, harder to hit, harder to kill with shooting, hit harder, and are more accurate than Gators, I imagine that any caster with an ARM buff is going to have fun with the new Golden Mountain
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 7, 2018 9:36:51 GMT
I am keen on trying Gearhart with 2 units of Assault Troopers, stacking Decel on top of Carapace should make them immune to most ranged attacks, and Vet Leader gets max reliability out of their lower number of attacks, plus the feat can make them pow 17 for a turn.
Also want to try Prospero and a Suppressor in the list, in my head it is a great package, but would like to test it.
edit, also want to put Lynus and Edrea in the list, cloud removal and the ability for Gearhart to pick the damage location for his Hot Shot guns seems really good
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Post by Trollock on Mar 7, 2018 11:26:19 GMT
Im not sure if i have seen all the spoilers, but i saw Syvestro, and that sort of pushed me over the edge. (un?)fortunately I will not be able to actually play games until week 2 of the CID so i can focus on building lists and thinking over interactions a good long while before any actual table time. Ill probably try and discover as many possible synergies as i can. Ill probably not get to try out the really broken stuff since it will be gone by week 2
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