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Post by josephkerr on Mar 9, 2018 6:58:12 GMT
I dunno how much the Avatar really needs to change rules wise. Gaze is still strong. Avatars pretty tanky. Theres a lot of stuff it can Gaze and not die, like light jacks and non weapon master infantry. The ony thing that has really changed about the Avatar is it lost Disruption immunity (a really corner case ability that most factions dont make use of). Greytemplar is right that Power up and larger warjack points make the Avatar disproportionately costly. If he lost a couple points hed be a more optimal choice.
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Post by HighPaladin on Mar 9, 2018 10:46:09 GMT
I'd be happy enough if I could take him with my Warjack points and he became immune to disruption.
Being able to take him as a self-fuelling jack for 'casters that don't really want jacks would be a decent spot for him, because he doesn't always need the choir to do some work (especially in Faithful Masses). I wouldn't complain if he went down a point or two, though.
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Post by streetpizza on Mar 9, 2018 16:27:23 GMT
Here's a Durst list for Avatar lovers: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0OeU3U3U2ejCjC3E3r3r3B2_jI2ijI2iProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (Durst 1) Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith [+28] - Sanctifier [14] - Sanctifier [14] Avatar of Menoth [20] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Paladin of the Order of the Wall [0(4)] Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Holy Zealots (max) [12] - Monolith Bearer [3] Holy Zealots (max) [12] - Monolith Bearer [3] He's a really scary mofo with all of the extra threat range that vengeance and boundless charge can give him. Especially when coupled with the +2mat and str from the theme benefit.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 12, 2018 15:58:21 GMT
I'd be happy enough if I could take him with my Warjack points and he became immune to disruption. Being able to take him as a self-fuelling jack for 'casters that don't really want jacks would be a decent spot for him, because he doesn't always need the choir to do some work (especially in Faithful Masses). I wouldn't complain if he went down a point or two, though. one of the issues is that we can get a self-fuelling jack for the infantry casters already. It's called a sanctifier and it even solves most magic weapon issues for said infantry(and ruins other benefits of incorporeal besides). While it lacks the overbearing direct firepower of the avatar, it comes from wjp and therefore doesn't chunk a free solo out of the caster's list. Between him, vassals, and powerup, it's just not actually a selling point anymore.
The disruption thing is even worse, just one of those slaps in the face from PP this faction received that still stings. Their reason was that it was too complicated for this warjack to be immune to it. You know, the warjack with the second most complicated rule on a warjack still glued on to it (most complex goes to Man in the Machine, courtesy of Karchev). That gets focus from God.
He's just not worth it without a deep diving change into what he really should be. This comes from someone who has lived the dream and gaze-locked a caster inside an indictor bubble.
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Post by correlion on Mar 19, 2018 10:56:31 GMT
how about change focus to power tokens on him? d3+2 power tokens. This way he will become immune to disruption and other similar mechanics. He will get 3-4 tokens(I still think that d3+1 is useless) and cannot gain them from vassals.
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Post by HighPaladin on Mar 19, 2018 12:55:51 GMT
I'd be happy enough if I could take him with my Warjack points and he became immune to disruption. Being able to take him as a self-fuelling jack for 'casters that don't really want jacks would be a decent spot for him, because he doesn't always need the choir to do some work (especially in Faithful Masses). I wouldn't complain if he went down a point or two, though. one of the issues is that we can get a self-fuelling jack for the infantry casters already. It's called a sanctifier and it even solves most magic weapon issues for said infantry(and ruins other benefits of incorporeal besides). While it lacks the overbearing direct firepower of the avatar, it comes from wjp and therefore doesn't chunk a free solo out of the caster's list. Between him, vassals, and powerup, it's just not actually a selling point anymore.
The disruption thing is even worse, just one of those slaps in the face from PP this faction received that still stings. Their reason was that it was too complicated for this warjack to be immune to it. You know, the warjack with the second most complicated rule on a warjack still glued on to it (most complex goes to Man in the Machine, courtesy of Karchev). That gets focus from God.
He's just not worth it without a deep diving change into what he really should be. This comes from someone who has lived the dream and gaze-locked a caster inside an indictor bubble.
I did say as part of my point that I'd mostly need the Avatar to come from WJPs to be worth regularly considering.
If he did, and was immune to disruption, I'd be willing to pay the extra 6 points over a Sanctifier for gaze, spell ward, shield, +3 pow on the main weapon. That said, I'd be a lot happier if he went down a point or two.
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Post by correlion on Mar 19, 2018 16:22:59 GMT
he also have 8 MAT and +2 ARM shield, flame burst, immune to control(since he has no cortex system) =)
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 19, 2018 16:52:00 GMT
Immunity disruption and the ability to benefit from BG spells and abilities. The issue right now is, all the jack casters have BG only spells and feild marshals, and the infantry casters don't want to drop 20 points on a heavy out of BG.
Let him benefit from things like durst feat, or Synergy. and he will be evrywhere
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 19, 2018 17:09:56 GMT
Immunity disruption and the ability to benefit from BG spells and abilities. The issue right now is, all the jack casters have BG only spells and feild marshals, and the infantry casters don't want to drop 20 points on a heavy out of BG. Let him benefit from things like durst feat, or Synergy. and he will be evrywhere This change alone could put Creator's Might in play.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 27, 2018 16:36:37 GMT
*Choco casts Revive*
So this past weekend I played in a small end of Journeyman League tournament. I ran Reznik1 the entire League so he was my caster for the tournament. We got to change up our final lists as we saw fit. I stayed in Faithful Masses, but swapped out a few things. I had my final 20(ish) points that were either going into a Repenter and Full Deliverers, or the Avatar. Since this was a fun event and didn't cost any extra to participate in it, I decided to play the Avatar list:
Reznik1 -Hierophant -Scourge of Heresy -Guardian
Avatar of Menoth High Paladin Dartan Vilmon (Free) Champion of the Order of the Wall Champion of the Order of the Wall Paladin of the Order of the Wall Paladin of the Order of the Wall Vassal of Menoth Vassal of Menoth Choir of Menoth (Min) Idrian Skirmishers (Max) -CA (Free)
It was a fun list and oh boy, does the Avatar hit hard and accurately when it gets the Hand of Vengeance trigger. I really enjoyed it in this list as it takes some of the focus consumption off of Reznik, doesn't need his buffs to perform well (maybe Ignite if I feel the need to really kill something), is very sturdy, is faster than the rest of my jacks, and when I play him like a combat solo, he's going to survive longer than your opponent wants him to. I never felt like I needed him to benefit from any of my spells, whether battlegroup only or not. I had one Vassal follow him around to either top him off with Focus or give him Enliven for some fun defensive tech. I had him take out a Krea with 8 damage on it in one hit from the HoV and choir buffs then take out a Cyclops Raider without batting an eyelash to then catch Jalaam in Menoth's Gaze, all while under Jalaam's Feat. He trivially took out troll beasts with Stone support and made life very difficult for my Khadoran opponent's Greylords (Outriders, Ternion and Koldun Lord).
I had lots of success with him in that event and he was fun. My only real complaint is his point cost. If he went down 2 points, I think he would be in the perfect spot.
PS: Sorry about the block of text.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Mar 27, 2018 17:21:24 GMT
I have been having great results from the Avatar in my Testament list.
He requires no focus from Testament and having an Incorporeal Avatar on feat turn being able to either gaze and run/walk through the enemy lines or charge through to wreck something is just amazing
Also, putting Hallowed Avenger on him and keeping him close to the Idrians or other infantry to get him some additional range and an attack at the start of your turn is pretty useful.
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Post by paradox on Mar 28, 2018 1:10:15 GMT
*Choco casts Revive* So this past weekend I played in a small end of Journeyman League tournament. I ran Reznik1 the entire League so he was my caster for the tournament. We got to change up our final lists as we saw fit. I stayed in Faithful Masses, but swapped out a few things. I had my final 20(ish) points that were either going into a Repenter and Full Deliverers, or the Avatar. Since this was a fun event and didn't cost any extra to participate in it, I decided to play the Avatar list: Reznik1 -Hierophant -Scourge of Heresy -Guardian Avatar of Menoth High Paladin Dartan Vilmon (Free) Champion of the Order of the Wall Champion of the Order of the Wall Paladin of the Order of the Wall Paladin of the Order of the Wall Vassal of Menoth Vassal of Menoth Choir of Menoth (Min) Idrian Skirmishers (Max) -CA (Free) It was a fun list and oh boy, does the Avatar hit hard and accurately when it gets the Hand of Vengeance trigger. I really enjoyed it in this list as it takes some of the focus consumption off of Reznik, doesn't need his buffs to perform well (maybe Ignite if I feel the need to really kill something), is very sturdy, is faster than the rest of my jacks, and when I play him like a combat solo, he's going to survive longer than your opponent wants him to. I never felt like I needed him to benefit from any of my spells, whether battlegroup only or not. I had one Vassal follow him around to either top him off with Focus or give him Enliven for some fun defensive tech. I had him take out a Krea with 8 damage on it in one hit from the HoV and choir buffs then take out a Cyclops Raider without batting an eyelash to then catch Jalaam in Menoth's Gaze, all while under Jalaam's Feat. He trivially took out troll beasts with Stone support and made life very difficult for my Khadoran opponent's Greylords (Outriders, Ternion and Koldun Lord). I had lots of success with him in that event and he was fun. My only real complaint is his point cost. If he went down 2 points, I think he would be in the perfect spot. PS: Sorry about the block of text. Love that list. Definitely stealing it.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 28, 2018 17:51:18 GMT
*Choco casts Revive* So this past weekend I played in a small end of Journeyman League tournament. I ran Reznik1 the entire League so he was my caster for the tournament. We got to change up our final lists as we saw fit. I stayed in Faithful Masses, but swapped out a few things. I had my final 20(ish) points that were either going into a Repenter and Full Deliverers, or the Avatar. Since this was a fun event and didn't cost any extra to participate in it, I decided to play the Avatar list: Reznik1 -Hierophant -Scourge of Heresy -Guardian Avatar of Menoth High Paladin Dartan Vilmon (Free) Champion of the Order of the Wall Champion of the Order of the Wall Paladin of the Order of the Wall Paladin of the Order of the Wall Vassal of Menoth Vassal of Menoth Choir of Menoth (Min) Idrian Skirmishers (Max) -CA (Free) It was a fun list and oh boy, does the Avatar hit hard and accurately when it gets the Hand of Vengeance trigger. I really enjoyed it in this list as it takes some of the focus consumption off of Reznik, doesn't need his buffs to perform well (maybe Ignite if I feel the need to really kill something), is very sturdy, is faster than the rest of my jacks, and when I play him like a combat solo, he's going to survive longer than your opponent wants him to. I never felt like I needed him to benefit from any of my spells, whether battlegroup only or not. I had one Vassal follow him around to either top him off with Focus or give him Enliven for some fun defensive tech. I had him take out a Krea with 8 damage on it in one hit from the HoV and choir buffs then take out a Cyclops Raider without batting an eyelash to then catch Jalaam in Menoth's Gaze, all while under Jalaam's Feat. He trivially took out troll beasts with Stone support and made life very difficult for my Khadoran opponent's Greylords (Outriders, Ternion and Koldun Lord). I had lots of success with him in that event and he was fun. My only real complaint is his point cost. If he went down 2 points, I think he would be in the perfect spot. PS: Sorry about the block of text. Love that list. Definitely stealing it. Wow, I think this is a first for me. This list was lots of fun and with some more play time, I think I can get used to it and make it perform even better on the table.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 30, 2018 19:11:13 GMT
*Choco casts Revive* So this past weekend I played in a small end of Journeyman League tournament. I ran Reznik1 the entire League so he was my caster for the tournament. We got to change up our final lists as we saw fit. I stayed in Faithful Masses, but swapped out a few things. I had my final 20(ish) points that were either going into a Repenter and Full Deliverers, or the Avatar. Since this was a fun event and didn't cost any extra to participate in it, I decided to play the Avatar list: Reznik1 -Hierophant -Scourge of Heresy -Guardian Avatar of Menoth High Paladin Dartan Vilmon (Free) Champion of the Order of the Wall Champion of the Order of the Wall Paladin of the Order of the Wall Paladin of the Order of the Wall Vassal of Menoth Vassal of Menoth Choir of Menoth (Min) Idrian Skirmishers (Max) -CA (Free) It was a fun list and oh boy, does the Avatar hit hard and accurately when it gets the Hand of Vengeance trigger. I really enjoyed it in this list as it takes some of the focus consumption off of Reznik, doesn't need his buffs to perform well (maybe Ignite if I feel the need to really kill something), is very sturdy, is faster than the rest of my jacks, and when I play him like a combat solo, he's going to survive longer than your opponent wants him to. I never felt like I needed him to benefit from any of my spells, whether battlegroup only or not. I had one Vassal follow him around to either top him off with Focus or give him Enliven for some fun defensive tech. I had him take out a Krea with 8 damage on it in one hit from the HoV and choir buffs then take out a Cyclops Raider without batting an eyelash to then catch Jalaam in Menoth's Gaze, all while under Jalaam's Feat. He trivially took out troll beasts with Stone support and made life very difficult for my Khadoran opponent's Greylords (Outriders, Ternion and Koldun Lord). I had lots of success with him in that event and he was fun. My only real complaint is his point cost. If he went down 2 points, I think he would be in the perfect spot. PS: Sorry about the block of text. Love that list. Definitely stealing it. Curious if you have had any chances to try out the list?
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Post by paradox on Mar 30, 2018 20:15:43 GMT
Im still faffing about with male tharn at the moment.
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