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Post by vorage on Mar 1, 2018 8:48:26 GMT
All is in the title. How beat a skarre list with 2 BE, 4-5 stalkers and some banes? I play a una2 ( 7scarfells 2 purebloods) and Krueger2's pairing and I don't see any issue. The problems are that I can't kill the BE under skarre's feat, stalkers ignore more terrain than griffons with jump and have a few more threat range and dark guidance is the perfect counter to my list!
Some idea with my pairing? With others list? Thanks for help😉
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Post by musza on Mar 1, 2018 9:18:14 GMT
That was my pairing for the Masters as well and I lost horribly with Skarre1 in finals (not that the game was perfect, there were some horrible mistakes made). I think Una has a hard time dealing with Skarre and she has no game if Skarre win the starting roll (tried it twice for practice and there was literally nithing I could do). I think that we need infantry based list, ambush, eyeless sight and sprays this to deal with her. I haven't came up with a perfect counter tho that is not useless against other matchups tho... but Mohsar in the Wild Hunt is pretty tempting
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Post by maplewhisky on Mar 1, 2018 10:52:35 GMT
Can someone explain why this is so bad for Krueger? I have only played vs her with Engines and Cav, which is obviously better for him, but are the stalkers really so hard to deal with? TK is exceptional vs Engines. Can someone post the list? Cheers.
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Post by musza on Mar 1, 2018 11:28:27 GMT
Can someone explain why this is so bad for Krueger? I have only played vs her with Engines and Cav, which is obviously better for him, but are the stalkers really so hard to deal with? TK is exceptional vs Engines. Can someone post the list? Cheers. I tried Krueger into Skarre1 with Cav and it's a good MU mostly because of Rebuke. I won the game after a long grind and I think it would get easier every time. The problem is the built with 6 stalkers and 2 units of banes behind them. I played it once and I did too many mistakes (horrible ones) to judge the MU but it felt bad. Stalkers are fast even under Krueger's FEAT and they are spread widely so you cannot get all of them in range. Rebuke helps to slow down a unit of Banes (usually you want to go with reach ones as they have a longer threat) but there's one more coming (WM). They are delivered as a second wave after Stalkers clear the battlefield. Banes are hard to remove with a Wraight Engine on the table and it's hard to remove a BE (arm 23-25) before Banes arrive. I guess the matchup isn't horrible but it is super hard and forces Krueger player to play it perfectly whereas Skarre1 is super easy to ordain.
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Post by maplewhisky on Mar 1, 2018 11:37:38 GMT
Can someone explain why this is so bad for Krueger? I have only played vs her with Engines and Cav, which is obviously better for him, but are the stalkers really so hard to deal with? TK is exceptional vs Engines. Can someone post the list? Cheers. I tried Krueger into Skarre1 with Cav and it's a good MU mostly because of Rebuke. I won the game after a long grind and I think it would get easier every time. The problem is the  built with 6 stalkers and 2 units of banes behind them. I played it once and I did too many mistakes (horrible ones) to judge the MU but it felt bad. Stalkers are fast even under Krueger's FEAT and they are spread widely so you cannot get all of them in range. Rebuke helps to slow down a unit of Banes (usually you want to go with reach ones as they have a longer threat) but there's one more coming (WM). They are delivered as a second wave after Stalkers clear the battlefield. Banes are hard to remove with a Wraight Engine on the table and it's hard to remove a BE (arm 23-25) before Banes arrive. I guess the matchup isn't horrible but it is super hard and forces Krueger player to play it perfectly whereas Skarre1 is super easy to ordain. I’m still not quite sure whats in this skarre list. 6 stalkers, 2 engines and 2 bane units dont fit. :S. Is it just one Engine? Banes are good vs guns but warriors are bad vs lightning storm, knights can weather it a little better but its not great. In my experience playing the matchup yes skarre is easy to pilot but if you play well enough she gets to make very few actual decisions. I feel like everything in the list almost is a major threat to stalkers, but 6 is a lot. I think those models will absolutely get to kill a heavy or two but once the feat is gone I feel like she needs to leave you almost without an army, as once her feat is gone basically everything you have murders non wraith engine models in droves. I’d need to give this a try but with my current pair if I see a million stalkers i think wurmwood is probably better anyway. If the chance to play the matchup comes up I’ll drop Krueger and report it.
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Post by musza on Mar 1, 2018 12:35:42 GMT
I tried Krueger into Skarre1 with Cav and it's a good MU mostly because of Rebuke. I won the game after a long grind and I think it would get easier every time. The problem is the built with 6 stalkers and 2 units of banes behind them. I played it once and I did too many mistakes (horrible ones) to judge the MU but it felt bad. Stalkers are fast even under Krueger's FEAT and they are spread widely so you cannot get all of them in range. Rebuke helps to slow down a unit of Banes (usually you want to go with reach ones as they have a longer threat) but there's one more coming (WM). They are delivered as a second wave after Stalkers clear the battlefield. Banes are hard to remove with a Wraight Engine on the table and it's hard to remove a BE (arm 23-25) before Banes arrive. I guess the matchup isn't horrible but it is super hard and forces Krueger player to play it perfectly whereas Skarre1 is super easy to ordain. I’m still not quite sure whats in this skarre list. 6 stalkers, 2 engines and 2 bane units dont fit. :S. Is it just one Engine? Banes are good vs guns but warriors are bad vs lightning storm, knights can weather it a little better but its not great. In my experience playing the matchup yes skarre is easy to pilot but if you play well enough she gets to make very few actual decisions. I feel like everything in the list almost is a major threat to stalkers, but 6 is a lot. I think those models will absolutely get to kill a heavy or two but once the feat is gone I feel like she needs to leave you almost without an army, as once her feat is gone basically everything you have murders non wraith engine models in droves. I’d need to give this a try but with my current pair if I see a million stalkers i think wurmwood is probably better anyway. If the chance to play the matchup comes up I’ll drop Krueger and report it. Yes, one BE. What you wrote is absolutely true, I imagine it wouldn't be as hard on a Standoff or ReconII but I've played on The Pit II and it's been horrible (again, I played it bad). Wurmwood is a lot better here but do you really want to pair it with Krueger2? How it's been working for you? looking forward to the BR!
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Post by maplewhisky on Mar 1, 2018 13:27:43 GMT
I’m still not quite sure whats in this skarre list. 6 stalkers, 2 engines and 2 bane units dont fit. :S. Is it just one Engine? Banes are good vs guns but warriors are bad vs lightning storm, knights can weather it a little better but its not great. In my experience playing the matchup yes skarre is easy to pilot but if you play well enough she gets to make very few actual decisions. I feel like everything in the list almost is a major threat to stalkers, but 6 is a lot. I think those models will absolutely get to kill a heavy or two but once the feat is gone I feel like she needs to leave you almost without an army, as once her feat is gone basically everything you have murders non wraith engine models in droves. I’d need to give this a try but with my current pair if I see a million stalkers i think wurmwood is probably better anyway. If the chance to play the matchup comes up I’ll drop Krueger and report it. Yes, one BE. What you wrote is absolutely true, I imagine it wouldn't be as hard on a Standoff or ReconII but I've played on The Pit II and it's been horrible (again, I played it bad). Wurmwood is a lot better here but do you really want to pair it with Krueger2? How it's been working for you? looking forward to the BR! That's a fair point, The Pit is an absolute grind. I've been playing Wurmwood with about 40 models which is a good pair to my heavy-focused Krueger list I think. On paper I think it makes more sense to give Krueger the guns, with Wurmwood taking the heavies but I have found that that pairing has more holes in its matchups than what I have now. Wurmwood/Krueger2 has been very good to me so far, so no complaints.
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Post by musza on Mar 1, 2018 13:49:43 GMT
Yes, one BE. What you wrote is absolutely true, I imagine it wouldn't be as hard on a Standoff or ReconII but I've played on The Pit II and it's been horrible (again, I played it bad). Wurmwood is a lot better here but do you really want to pair it with Krueger2? How it's been working for you? looking forward to the BR! That's a fair point, The Pit is an absolute grind. I've been playing Wurmwood with about 40 models which is a good pair to my heavy-focused Krueger list I think. On paper I think it makes more sense to give Krueger the guns, with Wurmwood taking the heavies but I have found that that pairing has more holes in its matchups than what I have now. Wurmwood/Krueger2 has been very good to me so far, so no complaints. may I ask what's your current Wurmwood list? I've seen the ones in your Batrep threat but I do think they are very similar with Krueger's and they both might struggle against mobile armor lists. Like, how you deal with Gaspy3 Slayer spam with this pair? It's even worse than Amon which I personally think Krueger2 handles fine (recently won a game against WTC player that had the best win record in WTC) but the line is set there and no further. If we talk Khador it's easier to just scenario win with them as they're usually slow but it's not the case with Cryx jack with carapace and higher DEF value.
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Post by maplewhisky on Mar 1, 2018 17:20:04 GMT
Wurmwood -Megalith -Woldwyrd -Woldwyrd -Woldwyrd -Woldwyrd -Woldwatcher 10 Croak Raiders w/3 Void Leeches Sentry Stone Sentry Stone Shifting Stones Shifting Stones Wayfarer Shaper Gremlin Swarm 75
That's it I think. Haven't tried the Amon game yet but I imagine it'll be pretty decent, on account of having so many models. I played the matchup with a build I think was worse vs Amon and it was a close game so I'm not super worried.
I haven't tried the Slayer Spam build yet. It seems really hard for both casters. At least they're only 13/17 vs Stranglehold? Krueger might have chops there too, just with controlly plays. I definitely think that it's gonna be a hard matchup for both. Have you played it yet? Playing Krueger guns vs it seems like a definite losing prospect, but maybe Krueger Heavies or some Wurmwood build can manage.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 1, 2018 17:38:44 GMT
Wurmwood -Megalith -Woldwyrd -Woldwyrd -Woldwyrd -Woldwyrd -Woldwatcher 10 Croak Raiders w/3 Void Leeches Sentry Stone Sentry Stone Shifting Stones Shifting Stones Wayfarer Shaper Gremlin Swarm 75 That's it I think. Haven't tried the Amon game yet but I imagine it'll be pretty decent, on account of having so many models. I played the matchup with a build I think was worse vs Amon and it was a close game so I'm not super worried. I haven't tried the Slayer Spam build yet. It seems really hard for both casters. At least they're only 13/17 vs Stranglehold? Krueger might have chops there too, just with controlly plays. I definitely think that it's gonna be a hard matchup for both. Have you played it yet? Playing Krueger guns vs it seems like a definite losing prospect, but maybe Krueger Heavies or some Wurmwood build can manage. Also only arm 17 vs gallows in the K2 match up, and Boosted POW 13's can cripple slayers. IMO stalkers are worse because they are so hard to defend against. Bonkers threat range and angles means your caster has to play way back. I would say if you see 6 stalkers and it continues to be an issue try playing Moh in Bones. It takes a lot of practice with pillar placement, but crevasse and manikins gets around stalker stealth and Pillars + sunhammer will hurt them a lot too. Moh is also in ADR right now and gets Vanguard, meaning you can build a super sexy pairing with him and Baldur 1: (if your community is into that anyway) My moh list in ADR is: Moh: Bones -Megs -2 Wardens -2 Wyrds Fulcrum 2 Sentry Stones 2 Stonehapers Wayfarer 2 Gallows Groves shifting stones Specialists: 2 Guardians Mist speaker Wayfarer Mist speaker + fulcrum means 1 dead/crippled stalker a turn if you use mirage well and aim. Wardens can eat banes alive with Crevasse as well as sentry stones. Megalith and hunters mark should also eat the wraith engine. Just keep Mohsar back (control 16 should let you) and make sure to get sunhammer working early. Doing 3-5 damage by turn 3 on those stalkers is going to help you a lot with removing them and can potentially cripple them. Manikins are also really good at killing stalkers if you can charge. You'll need a lot of practice with pillar placement though. Stalkers and Dark host in general can get around them if they really need to. Its more about limiting movement than flat denying something. Always assume your opponent can remove the pillar to get you, but account for activation of models when you plan out your turn.
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Post by vorage on Mar 2, 2018 13:18:14 GMT
There is the skarre list:
pskarre DH Theme: Dark Host
Pirate Queen Skarre - WJ: +28 - Skarlock Thrall - PC: 0 - Stalker - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Stalker - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Stalker - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Stalker - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4) - Stalker - PC: 8
Wraith Engine - PC: 15 Wraith Engine - PC: 15
Bane Lord Tartarus - PC: 0 Soul Trapper - PC: 1 Scrap Thrall - 3 Scrap Thrall: 2
Bane Riders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Bane Warriors - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Bane Warrior Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
With the possibility to swap the riders by another bane warrior unit.
Thanks a lot for your contribution and idea.
About Krueger, i think he have some chances in this match, but probably not against the 2nd list which will probably be black industrie. On my mind una (Depend a bit of terrain and scenario) is what i have to pick against that pairing? I'm maybe wrong.
I probably miss something, but how Wurmwood can take that skarre's list? Only Wurmwood (and possibly manikins) Can do something against stalker, who completely ignore our feat and will do a slaughter in our lanes.
For Mohsar i approve! He's hard to play but give some nice solutions. Before our cid, i had some success with a wildhunt list based on assassination.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 2, 2018 14:15:19 GMT
If Moh doesn’t work you can always try Baldur 1. Devo Host May not be great since the stalkers deny tough, but in Bones he can handle both that skarre list and Dark industries (though Moh might be better into DI)
The banes and engines ignore his Feat but Stalkers do not, And Solid forest placement can deny charges to names when used in tandem with central terrain.
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Post by jisidro on Mar 2, 2018 15:16:15 GMT
He gets creamed by Ghostly/Incorporeal that tottaly ignores his feat... Baldur1 was never good against cryx because of that.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 2, 2018 15:27:55 GMT
He gets creamed by Ghostly/Incorporeal that tottaly ignores his feat... Baldur1 was never good against cryx because of that. When the army is essentially 5-6 Stalkers his Feat becomes war more relevant.
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Post by musza on Mar 2, 2018 22:55:48 GMT
macdaddy, you're wrong sir. Stalkers do pretty much ignore Wurmwood's feat - they do not charge, they just jump
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