Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 6, 2017 11:37:18 GMT
Yeah the cloud wall + reposition is quite important Even if Strakhov isn't using it, I've found it handy for keeping Markov further up the board than usual.
Yeah I like the look of your list, basically dropping the black dragons for a second ulhan unit, right? I can see pros and cons to both. For example how often do you use Last Stand? I'm finding I cast it a fair bit due to the two small units that I don't have to worry about much.
I've played the list several times and I think I've only cast it three times and used it once or twice? Honestly the games I've had feel like they have been pretty one sided and Last Stand wasn't necessary. The one game I think I lost, maybe 2, was because of bad plays on my side and I really jammed myself up between terrain and high def infantry that was hard to hit on non charges. If I can get motivated for it, I'll try to post up another report or 2 soon for older games. I may have forgotten some of the specifics but the ideas will be there.
I want to pipe in and say thank you for these battle reports- I have an interest in Khador, and Strakhov2 in particular, and these have really made my decision to start them up and grab him much easier!
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 7, 2017 9:25:09 GMT
Strakhov2 vs Axis, Recon 2
Time for another game with Strakhov, testing the last jack set up in my ADR list. I'm not convinced Strakhov2 is my Convergence drop (Irusk2 JotW is my other list), but when trying out a newer list I find it best just to drop it into everything. Here's the lists:
Legion of Steel Strakhov2 +22 -Kommando -Kommando -Devastator -14 -Juggernaut -12 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Ulhan Kapitan Markov -7 Black Dragon Pikemen (Min) -10 Black Dragon Pikemen (Min) -10 Great Bears -9 Iron Fang Pikemen (Max) -15 -Iron Fang Officer & Standard -0 Iron Fang Ulhans (Max) -20 Stockpile
Destruction Initiative Axis -Corollory -3 x Inverter (P&S20 shot weapon one) -Double Shield Heavy TEP TEP Mechanics 6 Counter Charge Bots 6 Puncture Bots 3 Flare Bots Stockpile (Sorry about the names, not too up on which Convergence model is which...)
Scenery had a small house in the middle of the board. The was a hill on my right, just edging into the zone on my side, and a forest doing the samw on my left. There was another forest on the opposite side of the zone on my left, making that area quite restricted. There was a wall on each side fairly centrally and some water between my opponents deployment and the zone on my right.
I win the roll and go first. I deploy ulhans on my right with the juggernaut central from them. Strakhov was next to the juggernaut and had the iron fang pikemen on his left and Markov, a kovnik, the Great Bears and a black dragon unit right behind him and the iron fangs. The devastator deployed on the left of the iron fangs, ready to skirt round the inside of the forest and the last black dragons and kovnik went out wide on my left to go round th other side of the same forest. Opponent had a TEP on each flank, and Axis and his jacks central. Mechanics followed behind along with some flare bots. The countercharge bots spread out along the front line and all the puncture bots set up on my weaker left flank. The central iron fang pikemen advance move.
In a shocking turn of events, Quicken goes on the pikemen and Inviolable Resolve goes on the ulhans before Strakhov and co. reposition forwards. Ulhans run up the flank, staying out of threat range of the TEP. Iron fangs shield wall in the middle, a couple getting over fifteen but under seventeen away from the TEPs to tempt an early feat (unlikely). Black dragons and support all run up.
Axis puts Iron Aggression on an inverter that's heading towards my right side, advances and puts a Razor Wall down on my left, blocking some pikemen off. The TEP on my left then runs up, staying a little behind that wall. The other TEP is more cautious, only advancing forwards. Two countercharge bots run to tie up the ulhans, but one of them triggers countercharge from the kovnik and dies. The shield jack runs up on my right and the Iron Aggression inverter runs up near to the central house, slightly to my right. Another countercharge bot digs in behind the house.
Spells are upkept. The pikemen use Defensive Formation and get some charges in, several going off to my left to charge the lead countercharge bots (one getting countercharged and killed), one running to engage the bot behind the house (getting countercharged by the Iron Aggression inverter) before four pile into said inverter. Several bots die and the inverter is dinged up before the iron fangs reposition into shield wall. Markov runs to my right, letting the black dragons charge through the ulhans to clear out the jamming bot. This then lets the ulhans charge past into the shield heavy, taking him out on the last attack before repositioning a little. Strakhov advances, feats, casts Last Stand on the right black dragons and repositions behind his cloud wall. A kovnik runs onto my flag and the juggernaut runs into the middle of the zone. On the other side, the kovnik walks up behind the forest near the enemy flag and the black dragons shield wall up.
Iron Aggression stays up, Razor Wall is dropped. My opponent gets really jammed up between the central house and the two TEPs. The TEP on my right advances to toe the zone and sprays the ulhans , but is very unlucky and only kills one (though ARM24, 5 boxes and tough is a thing). The other advances a little and puts out some sprays, killing some iron fangs. All the bots on my left advance up and start trying to ping black dragons, but can't really due to the forest and kovnik. The Iron Aggression inverter kills the iron fangs nearest it, but then between it, the two TEPs and the central house the rest of the battlegroup becomes largely stuck behind. Axis does advance up, feat and stick down a new Razor Wall to hamper me on the left. One of the inverters does manage to run round the back of the TEP on my left, ready to get in about that flank next turn. My flag is uncontested.
Khador: 1 Convergence: 0
Quicken gets dropped, but Inviolable Resolve and Last Stand stay up. The ulhans kill a bot and reposition back to stay a nuisance on the flank. Strakhov backs off behind some clouds, puts Quicken on the Great Bears and repositions to hide the unit. Two Great Bears weren't in the feat, so can now charge the TEP on my right, taking it down to about eleven boxes and positioning themselves in a good nuisance spot. The Last Stand black dragons get themselves spread out to avoid TEP sprays hitting too many and Markov moves back to a more central position while the kovnik holds the flag. The devastator manages to get up within four of my opponents flag and is in the zone. Black dragons and the kovnik on that side continue killing bots where they can and the remaining iron fangs put some damage on the TEP. on that side.
Khador: 2 Convergence: 0
My opponent needs to get my flag contested to stand any chance. The Iron Aggression inverter is loaded up and tramples over the Great Bears to contest the flag. It doesn't kill any Bears, but eats a countercharge from the kovnik on the flag (it's contested anyway). With precision strike the already damaged left arm is removed, so it boosts a one-shot weapon into the juggernaut, then actually manages to kill the kovnik with the broken arm. The TEP kills all but one ulhan, kills a Great Bear and gets repaired for a little. On the other flank, the inverter there goes all in on the devastator and does a heap of damage. It's so much that the TEP decides to go for it as well, and damage rolls go great, killing it! However the bots don't manage much on the black dragons, so I still contest the flag. Axis backs away from the Great Bears. A new inverter charges into them and finally finishes them off.
Khador: 2 Convergence: 0
Last Stand is upkept, Inviolable Resolve is dropped and all the Great Bears are dead, so Quicken is gone. The juggernaut is loaded with focus. It starts and wails on the damaged inverter, killing it and freeing up my flag. The last ulhan charges the TEP, but a low damage roll only does a few boxes. The Last Stand black dragons go, four getting to the inverter that killed the Great Bears and two on the TEP. Both the heavy and battle engine die, though all black dragons have to attack. Markov moves to my flag and Strakhov moves to my right to stay totally safe, putting Inviolable Resolve on the juggernaut. On the other flank, the remaining iron fangs and black dragons go after the inverter, trying to position so TEP sprays will hit both the inverter and several bots. With that, Markov can score my flag, the juggernuat can score the right hand zone and I still contest the other flag and zone.
Khador: 4 Convergence: 0
At this point my opponent concedes. There's no real way to cotest my flag and the zone would have minimal contesting at best and Strakhov is out of threat range of everything, meaing there's not really a way to stop me winning next turn. The last heavy and TEP are both on the left flank away from where contesting is needed, so at best a corollory could reach the zone and a bot or two might reach the flag.
Victory to Khador!
The scenario strength of the list proves itself again! It really gets up the board fast and can then deal with the typical light contesters enemies have while putting some heavy armour up to contest itself. Being able to cloud off parts of the board very easily helps a lot with keeping various solos and support pieces alive as required. Strakhov was quite passive this game due to the threat of the TEPs (couldn't choose stealth because of the sprays, so had to cloud and reposition each turn, meaning the kommandos couldn't get involved with their guns.
Last Stand and a minimum black dragon unit were again pivitol in this match up, providing the final clearup that led to the win. They are very effective at just sitting in the wings behind jacks, ulhans and frontline pikemen, ready to crush any big hitters that appear. Being a minimum unit means not too many are lost to Last Stand attacks too and having two units means the hitting power can be moved from flank to flank easily.
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 11, 2017 9:25:27 GMT
Irusk2 vs Kaelyssa, Standoff
Time to go back to my Irusk2 list. Not played it in a long time and need some practice! Not sure it's better than Strakhov2 into Ret, but good to play it into anything. I fiddle about with ADR a bit, just to try out different combinations. Here's the lists:
There was a forest in the middle of the board, splitted the rectangular zones. There was a hill on my left just toeing into the left zone and another forest on my right. There was a hill on my right on my opponents side, plus a wall or two that never really came into it.
I win the roll and go first. Irusk sets up centrally with the juggernaut and assassins on his left and Behemoth, the destroyer and forge seer on his right. Eliminators then flank both sides. Opponent deploys strike force on my left, sentinels on my right and the battle group central. Eiryss is to my right and the fane knight is central. Seeing the sentinel position, I advance deploy the snipers on my right and Yuri and the manhunter on my left while the kossites ambush.
Solid Ground goes up on Irusk and Fire For Effect is on the destroyer, then Irusk casts Energizer and advances. Everything runs up into position, though I mess up threat range a bit, so the manhunter goes within range of a jack.
Phantom Hunter goes on that jack, plus Blur on the sentinels and Refuge on Kaelyssa. That jack advances and shoots through the woods to kill the manhunter. Otherwise stuff runs up, staying out of threat range. Eiryss swings out to my right, getting into a forest there.
Spells are upkept and the kossites ambush behind Eiryss. The destroyer aims, takes the extra damage and shoots the fane knight, but only does four damage. The kossites charge Eiryss, getting three into her back arc and another two into melee. Sadly none of them get a hit, but they tie her up and they're in the forest. Behemoth advances and blows up four strikes force, and the snipers and marksman dismount the fane knight. Juggernaut moves up, staying out of melee threat of heavies. Yuri advances slightly, staying out of tweleve of strikeforce while eliminators run into the enemy rectangular zone. The other eliminators both toe into the zone on my right and assassins stay central.
Refuge and Blur stay up. The sentinels use Iron Zeal before charging into the kossites. Unfortunately, a lot of hard eights are rolled to hit and all five kossites die, freeing up Eiryss. This means she can walk round and disrupt Behemoth, who also gets made stationary by Kaelyssa. Kaelyssa also feats, covering most of the army. Her jacks and the remaining strike force fire at the juggernaut, doing a lot of damage. Neither rectangular zone is contested. Electromancers bounce shots off the objective, getting maximum bounces and so killing both eliminators.
Khador: 1 Ret: 1
Both spells are upkept and the Stockpile heals the juggernaut for one. The destroyer aims, takes +2 damage for ranged attacks and shoots at Eiryss, but the shot scatters maximum away from her, killing a single sentinel instead. The eliminators on my right advance, each killing a sentinel to reach Eiryss. because of this, only one gets gang. She hits, and at dice-1 does two damage, leaving Eiryss alive. The widowmakers kill some more sentinels and the last kossite goes into the forest to try to be a pest agaisnt vengeance moves. On the other side, Yuri can charge a model not in the feat, killing it. Irusk advances onto the kill on my left, feats and puts a boosted Airburst into the last models in the zone, clearing it. He then feats. The assassins run into the circular zone on my left.
Khador: 3 Ret: 2
Refuge stays up I think. Sentinels vengeance and again one rolls the hard eight required to hit and kill the kossite in the wood. The juggernaut is removed at range thanks to the ghost sniper (assassin had engaged it, but missed the freestrike), both heavies and the remaining strike force. Kaelyssa again stationaries Behemoth before shooting at the eliminators engaging Eiryss, hitting and killing one. The sentinels then charge in and kill the other eliminator and all the widowmakers, clearing the right zone. This lets Eiryss disrupt Behemoth again.
Khador: 4 Ret: 4
With immortal Eiryss now in a position where I can't really do anything we decide to call it here so we can get another game in.
Victory to Retribution!
Obviously a little dissappointed in the outcome, but overall not bad! While the easy option is to blame Eiryss being exceptionally lucky, it's better to look for something that could have been done differently. Looking back, I believe Behemoth moved on turn two before I resolved the kossite attacks on Eiryss. What I should have done was resolve them first to work out whether Eiryss was a threat, then move Behemoth accordingly. Otherwise, I think I played fairly well, though running the eliminators to contest the enemy rectangular zone wasn't needed on turn two. Didn't know about the bounce shots on the electromancers, but I won't forget now!
Quick summary of the models I subsituted into the list:
Yuri the Axe Nice solo to have around and treewalker is very useful (though it didn't help in this game...[/i] Reach, one initial and thresher means he fills a different role to the manhunters and I'm not 100% sure he justifies being 2pts more expensive than them. Though DEF/ARM 14/14, stealth, tough and eight boxes is pretty tough!
Kossites A 7pt unit almost killed a 6pt solo top of turn two, then distracted a far bigger unit for a turn. I feel some of them should have lived due to treewalker and can see it being a generally useful ability if they can find a decent forest. AD, prowl, treewalker and blast immunity from Irusk could make them an annoying speed bump at times, and they are handy in SR17.
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 11, 2017 11:43:31 GMT
Strakhov2 vs Haley1, Standoff
Had time for another game, so wanted to try Strakhov2 against Cygnar. Friend was trying out the new Sons of the Tempest theme. Lists are:
Legion of Steel Strakhov2 +22 -Kommando -Kommando -Devastator -14 -Juggernaut -12 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Ulhan Kapitan Markov -7 Black Dragon Pikemen (Min) -10 Black Dragon Pikemen (Min) -10 Great Bears -9 Iron Fang Pikemen (Max) -15 -Iron Fang Officer & Standard -0 Iron Fang Ulhans (Max) -20 Stockpile
Sons of the Tempest Haley1 -Stormwall Gun Mage Solo Gun Mage Solo Viktor Pendrake Another shooty solo I think Gun Mages -Officer Gun Mage Blaizers (Max) Gun Mage Blaizers (Max) The Minion character unit, one of the names ends in "baum" I think Stockpile
There was a large cloud right in the middle of the board. A patch of rough terrain hindered my advance into the circular zone on my right and there was a forest to my left and a hill faily central on my side. On the opponents side, there was a forest jsut outside the zone on my right and another hill over on my left, plus a wall I think.
My opponent won the roll and took first turn. Stormwall was set fairly centrally, slightly to my left. Haley and the gun mages were central and there was a unit of blaizers on each flank. Pendrake was to my left and the Minion unit to my right, then the solos dotted around the middle. I deployed a black dragon unit on my right opposite the zone with the devastator just in from them. Then normal iron fangs, juggernaut, Strakhov and ulhans running right to left. Solos, were behind, the second black dragon unit was behind the ulhans and the Great Bears were central. Pikemen used advance move.
Arcane Shield goes up on the stormwall and everything runs up, staying out of melee threat or advance + reposition range of the iron fangs.
Strakhov uses Battle Maneouvers , casts Inviolable Resolve on the ulhans and Quicken on the pikemen, feats, and hides just behind his shield wall. Ulhans run up in base to base, black dragons and a kovnik run to follow right behind. Markov stays behind the clouds as well. Pikemen advance in shield wall and a kovnik hides in amongst them. Great Bears run up centrally, as does the juggernaut, staying outside ten from the stormwall. Devastator runs towards the right hand zone and the black dragons on that flank shield wall up a little (they're out of feat range, everything else is in).
Haley is in a real jam. Upkeeps stay up and stormwall gets focus. Haley advances and feats, possibly chucking a spell out. Stormwall advances, puts down some awkward covering fire and shoots big guns into ulhans, but only manages a point of damage (missed one shot). Gun mages and both blaizer units focus on the pikemen, but only kill three and a Great Bear. Everything that can backs off to try to minimize retaliation except two blaizers on my left that jam the ulhans.
I upkeep both spells. The devastator runs into the right zone and the small black dragon unit shield walls in behind it. Strakhov puts Last Stand on the other black dragon unit and sets up behind his clouds again. Markov moves up behind the cloud, letting the Last Stand dragons move through the ulhans to clear the blocking blaizers. Ulhans then charge back through the dragons, killing the last three blaizers and a solo before repositioning into a couple of clumps, controlling the zone. The iron fangs use Defensive Formation and charge up, killing a few blaizers on my right, plus a gun mage. They then reposition, engaging and blocking blaizers and gun mages, plus contesting the enemy rectangular zone. Juggernaut advances, staying in my zone.
Khador: 3 Cygnar: 0
We have a look at the board and the position of the remaining pieces and call it. There's no realistic way back into the game for Cygnar now.
Victory to Khador!
Brutal! We didn't think the match would be that bad for Cygnar, but it turned out to be a lost cause from the end of turn one onwards. We talked afterwards, and it would have made sense to hold Haley's feat until turn three. There would have been less models to get work done, but they wouldn't have been trying to power through Strakhov's feat.
Not too much to summarize, everything worked nicely! Good to once again get nice use out of Last Stand and the small black dragon units.
Opponent wins the roll and takes first turn. There's a large forest in the middle in the circular zone, a wall into the rectangular zone on my right and a huge wreck the other side of that. There's a hill on my left next to the flag there. There's a forest between my opponents deployment and their flag and a wall in their rectangular zone.
Opponent deploys a strider on each flank with a stormtower, the infantry in the middle and the fireflys spread out all over the place in the middle. There's a stormsmith on each flank and one central. I deploy the destroyer to get into my rectangular zone, the iron fangs central and the juggernaut and ulhans to my left. Great Bears are between the destroyer and pikemen and there's a black dragon unit and kovnik towards each flank. Markov and Strakhov are fairly central. The pikemen advance move up.
Turn one starts with Cygnar running up. Both striders receive three tokens as they do. The no knockdown spell goes up and the melee one goes on a firefly I think.
All the pikemen shield wall up the board. I decide to change things a little and put Inviolable Resolve on the lead pikemen and Quicken on the ulhans before advancing, creating the cloud wall, casting return Fire on the destroyer and feating. Destroyer runs to toe my rectangular zone and the juggernaut runs up. All the ulhans advance up onto the hill on my left and kovniks spread out to provide no knockdown across the board. Return Fire is at a solo that ran to contest my zone, but it misses.
I think spells stay up and Nemo keeps everything. A firefly runs up to get a couple ulhans, pikemen and the juggernaut in five. Nemo goes, feats and advances. He shoots the firefly, getting two bounces that go into a pair of ulhans. At dice-10 on three dice he forces tough checks on both of them and they both fail... The strider on my left advances and boosts damage against the juggernaut, leaving it at about eigth boxes. Electroleaps keep putting bits of damage into the ulhans, but no more die. Two fireflys finish the juggernaut off. Not wanting to over commit, no firefly runs up on my right. However the strider still leaves the destroyer at about eleven boxes. Otherwise, things move up.
Well, some cranked damage rolls made that more painful than I would have liked! Time to retaliate. Both spells stay up. The black dragons on my left charge the firefly that ran forward, killing it. That frees the ulhans, one charging the solo on my left, killing it while the other two charge a firefly in the middle, doing a heap of damage. They then reposition to better spots. The black dragons on my right also charge, two into the contesting solo (the destroyers aimed shot had missed and it didn't have a cortex) and four into a firefly on that side. The solo dies and the firefly is left with cortex. I went for movement with a two man CMA, then two oindividual attacks, that didn't do a huge amount of damage all told. The pikemen mini-feat and charge two fireflys in the middle, killing both and repositioning forward to engage the infantry where they can. A kovnik runs to my flag and Strakhov advances behind clouds, putting Last Stand on the left black dragons and return Fire on the destroyer.
Khador: 2 Cygnar: 0
Some spells get dropped I think and focus goes to the two fireflys. The one on my right starts, never missing an attack and so clearing out all the black dragons in melee. The stormstrider charges into my rectangular zone, killing one of the two black dragons then shooting the destroyer. It lives, so uses Return Fire to finish off the firefly with no movement. The strider then kills it with the second shot. The stormblades and last firefly go into the pikemen, leaving about five alive in the zone. All the ulhans die to the strider and such, as do four of the six black dragons on that flank. All the Great Bears are also killed after they came forward to be awkward counter chargers.
Khador: 3 Cygnar: 1
Last Stand stays up, the rest is dropped. The Last Stand black dragons, kovnik and two pikemen charge the strider on my left, killing it (just). The other pikemen in the middle kill a couple of infantry models. Markov is given Quicken and Strakhov puts Inviolable Resolve on himself before forming the cloud wall. Markov runs into the zone on my right behind the wall and away from the strider. The lone black dragon plinks a couple points off it.
Khador: 3 Cygnar: 1
Focus goes on the firefly that's still alive. All the iron fangs are killed to clear the central zone and a quick work shot into Markov does one box of damage. The kovnik is killed by a stormtower on my left (the other is already dead). The firefly just runs into my opponents rectangular zone and the squire runs to his flag. The strider misses the black dragon and injures Markov.
Khador: 3 Cygnar: 4
The black dragon stabs the strider a little, then Strakhov and co. take stealth and charge the stormblades, killing three. One contests the central zone and another contests my flag. Markov charges the squire, killing it but missing the impact attack on the stormtower.
Khador: 3 Cygnar: 5
A couple of infantry are cleared out to let my opponent score three zones for the win.
Khador: 3 Cygnar: 8
Victory to Cygnar!
So that felt pretty rough. Some damage rolls were insane, but as ever I could have done some stuff differently. Namely:
Not run the juggernaut quite so far up. This meant it could be hit by the striders direct shots, which are a lot more powerful than the main shots (POW17 + 4d6 hurts a lot). I think the juggernaut would have been in much better shape if I'd done that. Same with the destroyer, it could have stayed out of direct fire range of the other strider (POW15 + 4d6 still hurts).
Also, when the iron fangs repositioned I think I should have come back instead of forwards. Some could have made life awkward up front while the rest hung back some more, ready to counterattack again.
Overall, shame to loose, but some learning points to take away! Will hopefully get to try again on Sunday morning.
Several more nice reports, thanks for that! Cool games and a tough loss in the last one. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but I keep liking Inviolable Resolve the Uhlans especially because I like to play so aggressively with them. I wonder if that would have changed things for you more, probably would have left you at full strength at the start of your turn 2, and either have wasted shots from Cygnar, or left your pikemen decimated, but maybe that would be better? From my own experiences, I think LOS has some trouble dealing with Battlle engines, especially multiples, as well as attacks that leap or are like Ashes to Ashes. Pikemen in Shieldwall or Shieldwall and FEAT have a better chance of withstanding those shenanigans, but even then, especially with Fireflys around etc, it makes it harder. I think some charging Uhlans may handle them better, but sometimes there are better targets for them. Once again it comes back to me liking the Double Uhlans more, though I definitely see the value in your multiple units, for scenario presence, options for Last Stand targets and also to divide up your attacks more. I have a feeling that when I go through my points shuffling when Sofyia becomes available, that I may change my Black Dragons for Vanilla pikes and may also have to switch out one of Juggernauts for a Marauder? I'm still not certain about the points of it all.
In another thread on the Khador forum, you had a nice breakdown of how you consider your list building. At the risk of sounding like I'm kissing your butt too much, from previous forums and different games etc, I've just always really liked the way you approach things and your explanations and analysis have always been really helpful. Recently I have been running Strakhov1 and 2 and been having great success with them. My opponents so far have been Legion, Menoth, Ret and Cygnar but I am not sure how I would handle Cryx? I don't want to derail your battle report thread too much with talk about my stuff, though there is some cross over since we both are using Strakhov2, so I don't know if you would prefer I post these questions here, or if you wouldn't mind writing about this in my battle report thread in the Khador area, NEWS FROM THE FRONT?
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 21, 2017 8:29:47 GMT
Strakhov2 vs Kruger2, Spread the Net
Time for a last practice game with a friend before they head off to the WTC! While I think I drop Irusk2 here normally he wanted to play against a Legion of Steel style list.
Legion of Steel Strakhov2 +22 -Kommando -Kommando -Devastator -14 -Juggernaut -12 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Ulhan Kapitan Markov -7 Black Dragon Pikemen (Min) -10 Black Dragon Pikemen (Min) -10 Great Bears -9 Iron Fang Pikemen (Max) -15 -Iron Fang Officer & Standard -0 Iron Fang Ulhans (Max) -20
Kruger2 -Feral -Loki -Megalith -Pureblood -Woldwyrd -Woldwyrd Sentry Stone & Manikans Sentry Stone & Manikans I think that was everything.
I win the roll and take first turn. There's a hill between my deployment and the rectangular zone on my right and another hill in that zone. There's a central forest plus another forest on my left flank. I have a patch of water between my zone and the circular zone and then there's some water near my opponents flag. Finally, there's a couple of trenches on my left flank, one just into the rectangular zone there and one between that zone and my opponents deployment.
I set up ulhans on my right flank. Then juggenaut, pikement and Strakhov working along towards the water. There's the devastator, a black dragon unit and a kovnik on the left of the water. The other black dragons are on my right behind the ulhans and pikemen, Great Bears are central and Markov and the other kovnik are both fairly central. Opponent puts Kruger central, Megalith and Loki on my right flank, the pureblood central and the feral opposite his rectangular zone. The wold wyrds are each on a flank and the sentry stones both AD pretty centrally. The pikemen advance move forwards in shield wall.
The black dragons run up on my left, staying out of manikan range. The kovnik follows behind and the devastator also runs up as far as it can. The juggernaut runs up as well before Strakhov takes reposition, casts Quicken on the pikemen, Inviolable Resolve on the ulhans and moves back more central. The pikemen shield wall up, with only a couple getting in manikan range. Ulhans run up on my right flank. Solos, Great Bears and the second black dragon unit follows.
Sentry stones teleport up and one or two sprays go into the pikemen, killing one. Megalith then advances and puts a lightning storm thing on one manikan before Kruger moves up and does the same to a second, blocking my line to the sentry stone. Beasts all move up, but aren't in range of too much.
Quicken is dropped and Inviolable Resolve is upkept. The black dragons on the left shield wall up a little and the kovnik there advances to the flag. Strakhov takes reposition, feats and casts Last Stand on the black dragons to my right before the unit advances up and kills a manikan on my left before repositioning back. The pikemen shield wall up a little, going to the right of the central forest. The Last Stand black dragons follow in shield wall as well. Ulhans pull tight in on my right flank to benefit from the feat and the juggernaut runs into my rectangular zone behind them. The second kovnik runs up central to threaten counter charges and the Great Bears move up into the cram on my right. The devastator runs up into the central zone.
Manikans reappear and fury gets pulled in. Stones move up and spray, killing a pikeman or two, but neither kovnik gets taken out since only one could spray each of them and they're ARM18 just now. The woldwyrd on my right can reach a couple of ulhans and manages to kill one but hard;y scratch the other. Kruger messes about with TK and puts Rebuke on the pikemen as expected. He doesn't feat because he can't really push anything properly. Megalith and Loki advance up on my right while the other heavies largely stay put, feral in the rectangular zone and pureblood in the circular one. Neither rectangular zone is contested and neither is my flag.
Khador: 2 Circle: 1
Last Stand is upkept, Invoilable Resolve is dropped and the devastator gets a focus. Strakhov and buddies again take reposition, advance upto my left and shoot some manikans out the way. Strakhov then casts Quicken on the black dragons on my left before they all duck back behind the forest. The devastator headbutts the last manikan out the way on that side. The Quickened black dragons now charge, four getting to the feral and two onto the now manikan-less stone. The stone dies and the feral takes a battering, getting knocked down and loosing its spirit. On the other flank, the ulhans charge, three getting to Megalith, who they heavily damage before reforming into two pairs. The pikemen advance up and kill the three remaining manikans and the Last Stand black dragons shield wall up behind. The Great Bears run into the middle to be a pain and Markov moves up as well. In a stupid move the kovnik on that flank runs round onto the other flank, perfectly lining up a pureblood spray...
Khador: 4 Circle: 1
Rebuke is dropped and fury taken in. The woldwyrd on my right goes about clearing some space, killing an ulhan and a Great Bear. The other one clears out the Quickened black dragons that killed the sentry stone. The pureblood charges the kovnik that ran round and catches both kovniks with the assault shot, killing both. It then manages to get a little damage into the devastator. Kruger moves up and feats, getting a few pushes but mostly getting the SPD debuff out. before shooting a couple pikemen. He also TKs the feral and heals it's spirit. It has to do a two handed throw to kill a black dragon that was shoved out of melee, but manages before killing the last contesting dragon with a bought attack. With things pushed around Loki can now charge the Great Bears, just toeing my zone. However this triggers a counter charge from Markov, who promptly knocks him down and puts solid damage on the heavy. Circle are commited now, so Megalith goes in as well, charging and killing Markov. The sentry stone sprays a couple pikemen so there's only a few left.
Khador: 4 Circle: 2
Last Stand gets dropped since I'm not sure I can sort both woldwyrds and the juggernaut gets loaded with focus. The devastator can run into the opponents rectangular zone despite the SPD debuff, bulldozing the pureblood out the way as it does. Strakhov and buddies take stealth, advance up and put gunshots into the knocked down Loki, but don't finish it. The juggernaut walks up and kills it with its initials, letting the Great Bears charge and finish Megalith. The ulhans charge into the woldwyrd and sentry stone, killing the stone but not killing the woldwyrd. One pikemen can charge in to help, doing a little more damage before the three remaining pikemen finally use Defensive Formation to get into shield wall! The black dragons shield wall up as well.
Khador: 5 Circle: 2
The woldwyrd is TKed out of melee with the ulhans (good old lance rule...) and the devastator is TKed out of both zones before Kruger moves towards my left. The feral goes after the devastator, but don't do much since it is holding some fury from the turn before. The pureblood moves more centrally, spraying some guys but not doing too much damage overall. The woldwyrds also fire, leaving one ulhan at the end.
Khador: 6 Circle: 3
Strakhov keeps all his focus. The devastator starts by running back into its contesting position. The remaining pikemen charge the pureblood, knocking it down and doing solid damage. Following this, Strakhov advances, puts Last Stand on the final ulhan (he's missed by the woldwyrd shot) and him and his buddies gun down the pureblood before repositioning back. The black dragons charge the damaged woldwyrd and kill it. This frees up the ulhan to charge Kruger. He impacts the other woldwyrd on the way, doing solid damage before his charge attack sadly only does twelve damage at 4d6+1. However I then notice that the circular zone is now clear and I have the full remains of two units in it, plus the juggernaut scores the rectangular zone again while the devastator contests.
Khador: 8 Circle: 3
Victory to Khador!
Tough game! A good grind through and the list proved it's staying power and hard hitting ability over several turns. I made a couple silly mistakes like running the kovnik to line them both up for getting sprayed by the pureblood. I should have simply ran him to a position behind the central forest where he could have run to the flag next turn. I should also have dropped Inviolable resolve a turn earlier to help the ulhans survive the woldwyrd attacks.
A question did come up that we couldn't answer on the fly, curious what other folk think:
Does Defensive Formation get around Rebuke?
We played it that it didn't because Rebuke stops you giving or receiving orders. However, Defensive Formation states that the unit repositions, then becomes affected by shield wall. So it doesn't state that they receive the order. Not sure either way really, but if it does work then it would have helped keep several pikemen alive on turn 3!
I'm still happy with how the list is performing overall. Less ability to use my upkeeps, though they were still very useful. The central forest let Strakhov and buddies contribute with their guns a lot more this game, getting three or so rounds of shooting done while staying safe from retaliation.
Random thought that just occured though: wouldn't it be cool if their overtake ability was replaced with black penny..? Lends itself to their role of hanging around just behind the front lines and turns an incredibly niche/useless ability into something interesting and unique in Khador.
Defensive formation does indeed get around rebuke. It's like you said, when you mini feat you aren't giving or receiving an order, the unit is simply under the effects of that order. There is confirmation of this in the pp rules forum.
Ok, another question about shield wall. I believe a unit can begin the game in shield wall. So if I deploy my Iron Fangs and say they are in shield wall, I have heard from others that that means I can then run them on turn one and they are still considered to be in shield wall. Effectively they get the use out of two orders, though the shield wall order was not really given, they just started out that way. Is this right?
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 28, 2017 11:32:19 GMT
Strakhov2 vs Kaya3, The Pit 2
So I was going to try an Old Witch1 list I've been playing around with, but decided to wait until after the themes dropped before looking into the second list in my pairing too much. As such, I got another game in with Strakhov2 in Legion of Steel:
Legion of Steel Strakhov2 +22 -Kommando -Kommando -Destroyer -14 -Juggernaut -12 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Ulhan Kapitan Markov -7 Black Dragon Pikemen (Min) -10 Black Dragon Pikemen (Min) -10 Great Bears -9 Iron Fang Pikemen (Max) -15 -Iron Fang Officer & Standard -0 Iron Fang Ulhans (Max) -20 Stockpile
I win the roll and choose first turn. There was a decent sized forest in the central zone and another in the rectangular zone to my left. There was a hill on my right just edging into the rectangular zone there and a trench between the zone on my left and my deployment. There's a hill central between my opponents deployment and the circular zone, plus another couple pieces scattered around on their side of the board.
I deploy ulhans on my right with a black dragon unit and kovnik behind. The destroyer is to their left, then Strakhov next to it. The pikemen take the middle with Markov and Great Bears behind and have the juggernaut to their left. The last black dragons and kovnik go on the juggernauts left. The pikemen advance move. Kaya deploys centrally with a pueblood on each flank and the gorax behind. Loki is otwards my left and the three woldwyrds toward my right. The scarsfell is central and the blackclad is towards my right. Stones advance deploy centrally.
Mostly running up from me. Quicken goes on the destroyer so it can get to a spot to advance into the right rectangular zone next turn, but stays out of woldwyrd range. It also gets Return Fire because it is just about in range of one pureblood, so might be able to shoot a stone if my opponent isn't careful. Inviolable Resolve goes on the pikemen who shield wall forward. Everything else is running and staying out of range.
Fog of War is cast and everything moves up, mostly staying out of charge range of ulhans and pikemen, though the scarsfell comes a little too close. The woldwyrds move to a more central position since the middle forest is currently stopping them seeing the pikemen.
I drop my upkeeps and allocate two focus to the destroyer. It advances into the right zone and shoots at a stone. Loki shield guards and I boost damage on both stones, but neither spike for any damage. The pikemen mini-feat and press forward. Two charge the scarsfell for solid damage and the rest run up base to base with each other before the two chargers reposition back into base to base with each other. Great Bears follow behind and ulhans and black dragons advance/shield wall up, staying within range for Strakhov's feat. He casts Quicken on his own unit who then advance, drop clouds and feat, repositioning behind the clouds. Markov runs up behind the clouds as well.
Fog of War gets dropped. Basically, lots of shooting happens, only killing around five pikemen. The heavies on my left position so limited models can get to them and the other pureblood moves more centrally. The scarsfell is freed up, healed and charges into the destroyer after it's tagged with Hunter's Mark, doing ten damage and removing it's gun. Kaya feats and Loki puts up his animus. Stone teleport themselves in front of his beasts on my left as blockers. Everything is contested.
Quicken stays up and the destroyer receives a focus. Strakhov moves left, puts Last Stand on the left black dragons before repositioning behind the clouds, which are more central and linked to the middle forest. The Great Bears use Markov's bubble to charge through the pikemen, taking out the stones and staying base to base. The Last Stand dragons charge three into the objective and three into Loki. One charge and a two-man CMA later and the objective is gone while sadly the second attacker against Loki misses, so he dodges away. The last black dragon in the unit doesn't redirect his charge into the pureblood, meaning two will last the turn. The pikemen shield wall up through the Great Bears, dinging up a central woldwyrd. Markov moves right, staying behind the clouds and forest. This lets the ulhans charge at better angles, taking out the scarsfell and blackclad. The black dragons shield wall up and the destroyer puts some damage on something with it's gun (which was repaired by the objective). There was a woldwyrd not quite in the central zone who could have easily made it, but my opponent hadn't declared that was the intention. After some discussion we agreed to roll a dice and it wasn't in the circular zone. This meant no zones are contested and the objective is destroyed.
Khador: 4 Circle: 0
Circle needs to contest stop me scoring and score themselves to stay in the game. The gorax charges the lead ulhan after it goes down to one box from something. However, this triggers counter charge from the kovnik, who cranks damage to remove spirit and mind! It is contesting both the right rectangular zone and the central zone. The pureblood on my right moves towards the middle and takes out a boat-load of iron fangs (something like five pikemen and a Great Bear, plus forcing another to tough). The woldwyrds try to clear space for the other pureblood and Loki, but due to fury issues last turn they can't boost, so don't quite clear enough out though they do remove the last Great Bears and the kovnik. The pueblood therefore tramples over one black dragon to reach the last one, finishing of the unit. Loki charges the juggernaut, but can't kill it and the pikeman officer who's also contesting the left rectangular zone.
Khador: 4 Circle: 0
The kovnik, ulhans and destroyer easily kill the gorax while everything else is contested.
Khador: 5 Circle: 0
Victory to Khador!
Very pleased with that one. Managed to really put on the scenario pressure early, even though I couldn't really use my upkeeps much. Last Stand was again very good and the minimum black dragon units are proving really sweet in this list so far!
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Oct 2, 2017 7:57:41 GMT
Irusk2 vs Stryker2, Standoff
This ended up a bit weird since we both had lists we wanted to try, but I wouldn't normally drop Irusk2 into Cygnar and my opponent didn't plan on dropping Stryker2 into Khador since his other list is Nemo3! Nevertheless, we wanted to try out the new themes. My list is part of an ADR pairing with Strakhov2 and after swaps the lists were:
My opponent won the roll and took first turn. There was a cloud bank in the middle of the board and walls fairly central as well. There was a forest on my left mostly in the circular zone there, plus a forest in the middle of the zone on my right. There were also a couple of hills and trneches around. The other notable terrain was a large patch of rubble in the area between my deployment, the circular zone on my right and my rectangular zone.
My opponent deployed sword knights on each flank with a centurion just inside of each unit. Most chargers were central and slightly to my right, sentinel and Stryker were central and support followed behind. I set up eliminators on both flanks, Behemoth and the destroyer to my left and the juggernaut and kodiak to my right. Assassins and mechaniks were central and the widowmakers ADed into the rubble with the marksman nearby and Yuri was on my right flank.
The jacks all run up, as do the sword knights on my left. The other sword knights are more cautious due to the widowmakers on that flank. Stryker casts Deflection or whatever his ranged defense spell is and advances up. Arcane Shield goes on the centurion to my left.
Irusk casts Solid Ground on himself, Fire For Effect on the destroyer and sticks out an Artifice touching the rubble on my right before advancing a little. The destroyer, Behemoth and juggernaut run up to make a wall in front of him to make sure no chargers can see him. Eliminators and Yuri run up, as does the kodiak which gets into the rubble. The widowmakers and marksman start plinking damage off the nearest charger, though a couple get too close. Assassins run up the middle.
The charger that got shot get two focus. Stryker puts Positive Charge on it along with his ranged defence spell before the journeyman switches Arcane Shield to that same charger. It charges and kills two widowmakers that got too close. The other chargers shoot the kodiak for a bit of damage. The centurions move into the circular zones and polarity field and the sentinel moves into shield guard range of the objective and centurion on my left. Sword knightss run up again, but not too far.
All spells get upkept and the juggernaut gets a focus. The destroyer aims and takes +2 damage from the jack marshal before shooting the objective, which is shield guarded. The destroyer promptly blows the legs off the sentinel. Behemoth receives an extra focus and advances, also shooting the sentinel and leaving it on three boxes in right arm. The kodiak and juggernaut team up on the charger in my zone, killing it. Widowmakers kill some sword knights on my right flank and Yuri moves behind the forest in the right zone to contest. Assassins stay central, eliminators on my left toe the circular zone there behind a forest and the other eliminators move into the middle. Irusk casts Energizer to move his jacks about a little.
Khador: 1 Cygnar: 1
Focus is again split up on the jacks. The centurions again advance and stick up polarity field and the sword knights follow. They've been hanging back a fair bit, so are only just about halfway through each zone. One charger receives Positive Charge and charges some assassins, killing two. The other charger goes into the kodiak, doing a litle damage and removing movement. The sentinel tries to shoot a couple mechaniks, but the first shot gets toughed and the next two miss. Support stays back.
Khador: 2 Cygnar: 2
Solid Ground and Fire For Effect stay up and the juggernaut gets a focus. Irusk advances a little and feats, then puts Battle Lust on the assassins. The juggernaut can now see through the cloud, so charges and kills the objective. The marksman finishes off the sentinel and widowmakers take out a couple more sword knights, leaving about seven (there's been a few misses) on my right. Behemoth takes a focus from the forge seer and advances, taking two boosted shots at Runewood with Maddox in blast range, but missing both. One clips Stryker and cranks for six damage and the other clips Runewood for three. The assassins mini-feat and charge, the underboss getting into one chargers back arc and another kayazy getting into the other ones back arc. The leader charges away, killing the last model in the enemy zone except Stryker. The underboss kills his charger alone like a(n under)boss and the two on the other charger cripple it before the kodiak finishes it off. Eliminators on my left run through the forest to engage a bunch of sword knights and Yuri and the other eliminators stay put.
Khador: 5 Cygnar: 2
The centurion on my left gets a focus since I've left Behemoth just within charge range, despite my feat. It charges Behemoth for a little damage. Arcane Shield is moved to the centurion on my left. Stryker rolls 2d6 extra damage on himself, getting +12 STR(!) and doing 7 damage. The other way round would have killed him! He charges the juggernaut and easily kills it, feats and Velocities back slightly. Maddox also charges up, killing an assassin and sprinting into my zone. The right centurion charges the kodiak for a little and sword knights on my right run into position for the feat. The other sword knights press forward, three being stuck in melee with each eliminator. They promptly roll the 11 needed on the first try agaisnt each on, killing them both. Feat attacks take out Behemoth's cortex, kill several assassins and damage the kodiak.
Khador: 5 Cygnar: 3
Upkeeps stay up. The objective gives pathfinder to an eliminator. The mechaniks advance and repair Behemoth's cortex before the forge seer hands him a focus. He rolls great for damage, killing the centurion after the destroyer snipes out the journeyman to remove Arcane Shield. The eliminators receive Battle Lust, one charging over a wall to reach Maddox and the other charging a sword knight. Maddox dies, as does the sword knight. The last two assassins move to contest Stryker in his zone and kill another sword knight. Yuri charges the centurion on my right in the back, threshering it and two sword knights, but missing one sword knight. In a stupid move I leave him less than half an inch out of Irusk's control. No one scores anywhere since the remaining centurion is now in my zone and there's no full units in the circular zones.
Khador: 5 Cygnar: 3
Gibbs goes and fully heals Stryker and Runewood. Stryker rolls 3d6, again getting +12 STR, but this time doing 15 damage to himself! He charges and kills Behemoth, then Velocities back a little. Sword knights and Runewood can't kill off the eliminators. The centurion turns around and forces a tough check, which he passes, but falls over. The last two sword knights from that unit charge him, taking that circular zone. The contesting assassins get killed too.
Khador: 5 Cygnar: 5
As mentioned the eliminators are still alive. I stick Battle Lust on them after the objective gives one of them pathfinder. One charges into Stryker's back arc and the other runs for gang. The first attack kills him.
Victory to Khador!
That got a little tight towards the end! I made a couple little positioning errors like leaving Yuri out of control range and Behemoth within range of the centurion on feat turn, but managed to bring it back in the end. Shows the strength of eliminators!
So the theme force has obviously changed a little and overall I like the changes to Jaws of the Wolf. Being able to take Yuri for free makes him far more appealing and kossites feel more worthwhile (they're in my specialists). The loss of ambush instead of advance deploy feels like a downgrade to begin with and is slightly. However when looking at other theme forces and what factions they're in I feel like the factions I want to play this into often have ambush benefits in their themes, so this works out nicely. Reposition on mechaniks is still pretty niche, but I think that's what keeps the free stuff at every 25pts instead of 30 like Heavy Metal.
From this I've identified the following types of list I can switch to: Terrain Heavy Board, Jack Heavy, Ghost Fleet / Dark Menagerie List and Minimal Ranged, plus little swaps like in the battle above. Pretty pleased with it overall, though might do a little tinkering. Also need to fiddle about with the Strkhov list, make sure I've covered it's drops properly.
Thanks for reading!
Last Edit: Oct 2, 2017 11:51:34 GMT by thebuoyancyofwater: I think stormblades were actually sword knights... Silly identical Cygnar models.