Grimolf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 246
|
Post by Grimolf on Feb 23, 2018 21:34:46 GMT
I was glancing through the Cryx lists and stats for the OTC. Skarre1 with Wraith Engines is still popular, and variants of Keith Christianson’s Asphyxious3 with all the Slayers also seems popular now too. I was struck by the fact that Denny2 is the most popular Cryx caster at the tournament. I’ve played her a bunch myself, and she’s a ton of fun and very tricksy, but I didn’t expect to see her take over the top spot in tournament lists. Nine out of the 10 Denny2 lists have her in Black Industries (the lone hold out is the Cryx player for “The Real Americans,” who has her in Dark Host). The Black Industries lists are all over the place though. Some are going the full-Asphyxious3 ‘jack load out with no units. Others have varying numbers of Cephalyx Overlords (1-3 units), or a unit of Croe’s. The ‘jacks taken are all over the place too (a list with multiple Corruptors, others with multiple Inflictors, or Slayers, or a mix), although many have Deathjack (for the double Hellmouth, no doubt). Nobody seemed to copy Aaron Wales’ Cancon Champions Denny2 list, however. Anyway, the variety of Denny2 lists, even within one theme pleased me. It’s neat to see the experimentation going on, and I’m looking forward to hearing reports after the event. So, what surprised you about the OTC lists? Any lists or pairings stand out? |
|
|
|
Post by gedditoffme on Feb 24, 2018 1:03:04 GMT
Denny2, Nightmare, DJ +5 slayers is interesting, as is Denny2+6 slayers + 3xoverlords, since I don't feel she does much for that many warjacks. Especially paired with pSkarre dark host, I'd want to build Denny2 with some overlords as an anti infantry machine.
Also intrigued by Stalkers popping up in Denny2 Black Industries, since can't really see that she or the theme does much for them. But could be wrong about that in practise.
I too am trying to perfect a Denny2 Black Industries list - currently NM, DJ, reaper, slayer, WSC, +2 overlords. Even that I feel struggles with attack volume, and not convinced it is optimised.
Guess the issue (and amazing state of the list balance) is it is hard to work out how to 'optimise' denny2 Black Industries - there's a lot of tradeoffs in which jacks you take and how much infantry support it needs. She can do a lot of things with DJ + ~1-4 heavies, and what exactly she does depends on that mix.
There's a few similar to Wales' Cancon Denny+4 leviathan lists, curious to see how it goes since it seems like the definition of Jank. If people start to come prepared for it, or is it just a powerful list (arguably begging for Leviathan nerfs?)
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605 
|
Post by Deller on Feb 25, 2018 0:18:24 GMT
There's a few similar to Wales' Cancon Denny+4 leviathan lists, curious to see how it goes since it seems like the definition of Jank. If people start to come prepared for it, or is it just a powerful list (arguably begging for Leviathan nerfs?) It’s an interesting list, but I don’t think it’s going to hold up very well over time. It’s a gunline that shreds armor, which is relatively rare to see since the fall of Ossyan, but the list has some major issues into some common gun answers. First off the Leviathans don’t have magic guns, and the only ways to grant magic are on a single shot via the objective & The Withershadow Combine granting to a single model, so the list is going to have issues into things like Protectorate jacks, Wraith Engines, or spells like Wind Wall. Secondly the Leviathans have no answers to Stealth. If your opponent is running mass Stealth your only relevant models are the Overlords, Sirens, & Arc Nodes. Thirdly the list gets utterly decimated by Cloud Walls. There’s no ways of allowing the Leviathans to see through Clouds, and in a world filled with casters like Haley3, Kolgrima, and soon Sorscha3 the list is going to have a lot of matchups where it needs to just dodge. The biggest reason I think this Leviathan list has been so successful is because the modern gunlines like Nemo3 that people are preparing for look very different from the traditional gunlines like this Deneghra1 Leviathan list, and require very different answers, & things like Choir, Stealth, & Clouds basically do nothing vs Nemo3. The second people start thinking about traditional gunlines again the Leviathan list becomes extremely sad. |
|
|
|
Post by gedditoffme on Feb 25, 2018 4:18:34 GMT
There's a few similar to Wales' Cancon Denny+4 leviathan lists, curious to see how it goes since it seems like the definition of Jank. If people start to come prepared for it, or is it just a powerful list (arguably begging for Leviathan nerfs?) It’s an interesting list, but I don’t think it’s going to hold up very well over time. It’s a gunline that shreds armor, which is relatively rare to see since the fall of Ossyan, but the list has some major issues into some common gun answers. First off the Leviathans don’t have magic guns, and the only ways to grant magic are on a single shot via the objective & The Withershadow Combine granting to a single model, so the list is going to have issues into things like Protectorate jacks, Wraith Engines, or spells like Wind Wall. Secondly the Leviathans have no answers to Stealth. If your opponent is running mass Stealth your only relevant models are the Overlords, Sirens, & Arc Nodes. Thirdly the list gets utterly decimated by Cloud Walls. There’s no ways of allowing the Leviathans to see through Clouds, and in a world filled with casters like Haley3, Kolgrima, and soon Sorscha3 the list is going to have a lot of matchups where it needs to just dodge. The biggest reason I think this Leviathan list has been so successful is because the modern gunlines like Nemo3 that people are preparing for look very different from the traditional gunlines like this Deneghra1 Leviathan list, and require very different answers, & things like Choir, Stealth, & Clouds basically do nothing vs Nemo3. The second people start thinking about traditional gunlines again the Leviathan list becomes extremely sad. Will be interesting running a similar list in slaughter fleet raiders once dirge seers are out: which overcome all the issues you list. It loses carapace and 2” of deployment, which hurts a lot, but opens things up in other ways |
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Feb 25, 2018 5:07:05 GMT
It’s an interesting list, but I don’t think it’s going to hold up very well over time. It’s a gunline that shreds armor, which is relatively rare to see since the fall of Ossyan, but the list has some major issues into some common gun answers. First off the Leviathans don’t have magic guns, and the only ways to grant magic are on a single shot via the objective & The Withershadow Combine granting to a single model, so the list is going to have issues into things like Protectorate jacks, Wraith Engines, or spells like Wind Wall. Secondly the Leviathans have no answers to Stealth. If your opponent is running mass Stealth your only relevant models are the Overlords, Sirens, & Arc Nodes. Thirdly the list gets utterly decimated by Cloud Walls. There’s no ways of allowing the Leviathans to see through Clouds, and in a world filled with casters like Haley3, Kolgrima, and soon Sorscha3 the list is going to have a lot of matchups where it needs to just dodge. The biggest reason I think this Leviathan list has been so successful is because the modern gunlines like Nemo3 that people are preparing for look very different from the traditional gunlines like this Deneghra1 Leviathan list, and require very different answers, & things like Choir, Stealth, & Clouds basically do nothing vs Nemo3. The second people start thinking about traditional gunlines again the Leviathan list becomes extremely sad. Will be interesting running a similar list in slaughter fleet raiders once dirge seers are out: which overcome all the issues you list. It loses carapace and 2” of deployment, which hurts a lot, but opens things up in other ways Slaughter Fleet still has the +2 deployment, but losing Carapace makes the list a lot worse in the Guns vs Guns matchup, and you’re taking a major hit in the free model department. The list also becomes a lot easier to jam without Carapace since Deneghra1 really doesn’t wanna be spending her focus on Ghost Walking to disengage with this build. |
|
|
|
Post by theghost on Mar 2, 2018 8:09:35 GMT
Where can I see these lists? Conflict chamber does not seem to open the actual lists.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 2, 2018 10:44:02 GMT
Where can I see these lists? Conflict chamber does not seem to open the actual lists. You can click on the teams and then on players to see their lists. There is no way that I have currently found that just shows you all the Cryx lists for instance; you have to search manually. |
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Mar 3, 2018 0:45:20 GMT
Where can I see these lists? Conflict chamber does not seem to open the actual lists. I’m not sure what’s up with your ability to view the lists, but everything is here. Like the poster above said, you need to click on the teams & player names to view the lists. |
|
|
|
Post by labyrinth on Mar 3, 2018 5:17:12 GMT
im having the same problem. only lists i can see are minion, gymkin and legion lol.
|
|
gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
|
Post by gmonkey on Mar 5, 2018 15:01:34 GMT
The javascript seems buggy. If a list won't windowshade open, reload the page and try again.
|
|
|
|
Post by theghost on Mar 7, 2018 11:02:09 GMT
turns out it was a problem on my phone. Worked fine once I got on my PC.
|
|
