draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Feb 23, 2018 16:32:41 GMT
Hello! I am looking at running some farrow for a change of pace and I have found myself asking a few questions:
1) Is Lord Carver, BMMD, Esq. III Viable in a "semi competitive" Casual setting? - How do you run him? Is he best in a combined arms role? What does BMMD stand for? What Battle Group does he like? Does he like taking Rorsh? Would you give Rorsh any additional beasts?
2) How Much can Rorsh run on his own? Or, how effective are Gun boars without to much additional furry? (I'm thinking of running Rorsh with two gun boars and holding him and the guns back while using extended control range on Brine)
3) What do I do with bone grinders? I am utterly confused about their rules... the furry manipulation makes me think they are furry management pieces but they also have dismember? (is this just to give the furry manipulation a downside/cost?)
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Post by Gaston on Feb 23, 2018 18:13:04 GMT
Hello! Is Lord Carver, BMMD, Esq. III Viable in a "semi competitive" Casual setting? Easily - How do you run him? Is he best in a combined arms role? Beast Heavy What does BMMD stand for? What Battle Group does he like? Bringer of Most Massive Destruction Does he like taking Rorsh? It is not unheard of, but his abilities are battlegroup-centric. Would you give Rorsh any additional beasts? Battle Boar or Splatter Boar How Much can Rorsh run on his own? Usually 1 additional light with a helpful animus Or, how effective are Gun boars without to much additional furry? They need the fury. What do I do with bone grinders? I am utterly confused about their rules... the furry manipulation makes me think they are furry management pieces but they also have dismember? (is this just to give the furry manipulation a downside/cost?) Leave them at home
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Feb 23, 2018 19:04:56 GMT
Thanks Gaston!
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Post by danfromchicago on Feb 23, 2018 19:10:18 GMT
Bone Grinders are in a weird spot. They're cheap infantry with a number of abilities which are situation-ally useful:
* They have magic weapons. This means they can kill incorporeal stuff * They have Dismember. This means they can be especially effective against beasts. * They can give themselves Grievous Wounds. This means they can shut down any mechanic which depends on healing; Tough, Martyrdom, etc * They can give themselves Inflict Pain, which can remove or add a FURY. Use it as FURY management if you have a source of healing. You can fill up an enemy beast, which shuts down transfers * They have Craft Talisman, which extends the range of a non-channeled spell
They're MAT 6 P+S 8, which is bad, SPD 5 .5" Melee which is bad, and DEF 12 ARM 14 which is bad. They're also very cheap, which is good.
If you want to play them with Carver, I think they're an interesting late game Quagmire target. Against a Hordes Army they can be absolutely obnoxious in an anti-beast role, especially on the fest turn(MAT 7/9 at 5 dice damage makes for a lot of expected damage per attack).
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Post by Azahul on Feb 23, 2018 22:24:51 GMT
Bone Grinders are Mat 6, P+S 10. Also Combined Melee Attack. They mostly see use with Helga, Sturm and Drang, and Midas where the extra 2" spell range can be valuable. In those lists they make decent mop-up crews if you're playing into Hordes.
I've actually run Midas lists with three or four Bone Grinder units with some success, taking advantage of the ludicrous oversupply of Hordes in my local meta. But unless you are also in a situation where a quarter of players at a tournament could be running Skorne, I wouldn't recommend that.
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Post by Gaston on Feb 24, 2018 3:22:34 GMT
I don't like what they did with the Grinders in the new edition. They removed the magic bolt and tacked on a bunch of melee bonuses on a support unit, then upped the cost to match. What you end up with is something that is overly costed for the single ability that it will use 90% of the time and appropriately costed the other 10%. And I think I am being generous with that 10%. I do occasionally use them, they are good feat targets for both Jaga and eBarney. But one of the best parts about this community is how we can all differ and debate, rather than groupthink like that other faction...
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Feb 24, 2018 7:21:21 GMT
What's the problem with Skorne?
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Post by Azahul on Feb 24, 2018 8:26:11 GMT
What's the problem with Skorne? There's way too many of them. Makes teching for them specifically a stupid crutch method of scooping up first place results locally. Think six to eight Skorne players in a 30 person tourney.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Feb 24, 2018 9:18:34 GMT
What's the problem with Skorne? There's way too many of them. Makes teching for them specifically a stupid crutch method of scooping up first place results locally. Think six to eight Skorne players in a 30 person tourney. Sorry, I don´t get it. You said you´ve got a decent Midas list against Hordes but if you face lots of Skorne teching against them (they are still a Hordes faction) isn´t the best thing you can do. Besides the Shooty Skorne lists I think that all of Skorne are rather victims to Bone Grinders due to low DEF, living warbeasts. What do I overlook? A charging Bone Grinder does 5 damage to a Gladiator on average rolls without any buffs. Therefore: what´s so special about Skorne that you can tech against Hordes but not tech against Skorne?
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Post by Azahul on Feb 24, 2018 12:02:56 GMT
Sorry, I don´t get it. You said you´ve got a decent Midas list against Hordes but if you face lots of Skorne teching against them (they are still a Hordes faction) isn´t the best thing you can do. Besides the Shooty Skorne lists I think that all of Skorne are rather victims to Bone Grinders due to low DEF, living warbeasts. What do I overlook? A charging Bone Grinder does 5 damage to a Gladiator on average rolls without any buffs. Therefore: what´s so special about Skorne that you can tech against Hordes but not tech against Skorne? I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding. I'm saying that I do tech against Skorne. And that I do so on occasion by just taking a dozen Bone Grinders alongside whatever else is in the list. Because I agree. With a few small exceptions, Bone Grinders trade very well indeed into most Skorne builds I can care to name. Even Archidons aren't safe from them, since Midas is invariably the Warlock in charge and he can trivially get Bone Grinders to Mat 8+.
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Post by Gaston on Feb 24, 2018 15:56:23 GMT
Example: His area is 30% Skorne, mine is 30% Grymkin. His lists will be better served being stronger into Skorne than Grymkin, and vice versa for me; affecting opinions on the strengths of various models.
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Post by custardboy on Feb 24, 2018 19:59:34 GMT
Hello! I am looking at running some farrow for a change of pace and I have found myself asking a few questions: 1) Is Lord Carver, BMMD, Esq. III Viable in a "semi competitive" Casual setting? - How do you run him? Is he best in a combined arms role? What does BMMD stand for? What Battle Group does he like? Does he like taking Rorsh? Would you give Rorsh any additional beasts? 2) How Much can Rorsh run on his own? Or, how effective are Gun boars without to much additional furry? (I'm thinking of running Rorsh with two gun boars and holding him and the guns back while using extended control range on Brine) 3) What do I do with bone grinders? I am utterly confused about their rules... the furry manipulation makes me think they are furry management pieces but they also have dismember? (is this just to give the furry manipulation a downside/cost?) What Gaston said. Carver is very competitive. The problem comes in creating a list pair with him in pigs and if you have gators, it is always 'why not Rask.' I run him with 80 ish points of beasts, then the rest of the list is a bunch of solos and then swamp gobbers bellows. He doesn't offer enough to farrow infantry to bother with them. Plus they can't keep up. I like Rorsh with him. Carver has problems managing fury and getting all his spells out so Rorsh can take some pressure off. Veteran leader on his gun is pretty good, the late game shooting after Brine dies is one of the best parts of them. I give him a battle boar as early on Rorsh has nothing to do with his fury (pigpen is the worst spell in the whole game) so he and the battle boar can throw out primal without pressuring Carver. Running a gun boar is possible, but probably not two. I prefer the majority of 'active' models to have batten. Bone grinders are even worse than they look on paper. Even against a hordes heavy meta I wouldn't field them.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Feb 24, 2018 22:16:04 GMT
Veteran leader on his gun is pretty good, the late game shooting after Brine dies is one of the best parts of them. I have to agree here. Due to similar reasons I like to run Farrow Brigands in min units with UA because I think the UA is a good guy and I want to keep the tax as low as possible.
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Post by DoktorGrym on Mar 1, 2018 18:09:21 GMT
I really wish Bonegrinders were able to grab heart tokens or fetish supply tokens as they are susposed to craft bonegrinder fetishes fluff wise from the bits they remove from their targets. But, alas we cannot have such a great mechanic on a low point unit.
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Post by gromthepaunch on Mar 24, 2018 6:24:56 GMT
I am probably missing the obvious but what is the farrow answer to incorporeal?
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