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Post by macdaddy on Mar 25, 2018 19:34:25 GMT
He needs a forward unit for sure. Currently tinkering with Steelhead Halbs. Idrians are super good with him, though. I also have been including Anastasia as a spot fixer for far flags he has trouble getting to. We basically have two solos as a faction that are good into those flags and CM can take neither: Nicia and Allegiants. Do you take the priest? My issue with halbs is no AD and no guns. Guns are super strong when facing other screens and in the early turns. Making people respect a 16-18” Threat (depends on caster) can buy you tune in the right match up. Vilmon is actually really good on flags under Durst. 13/23 under decel or 17/23 if you are behind the FM wall. It’s really hard to remove without committing something serious to him. I also think Knights Exemplar seneschals And Ellias are really good on flags. The senny’s Don’t die till your maintnece phase (making them also really phenomenal contesting peices) and ellias can actually do work from a flag in the right scenario. Or he can go for your opponents flag because he bad touches solos really well. I have yet to use punch monks much. A friend of mine from the Advanced maneuvers team gave me 2 because he is awesome and they are going to be utilized a LOT in the coming Months. Sorry Gaston, looks like you get to deal with them again
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Mar 25, 2018 20:00:54 GMT
I've also learned the hard way that Creator's Might is a scenario disaster in SR2017. Try transfering the concept into Exemplar Interdiction or Faithful Masses and see how it goes. I am much happier with my Sevvy1 heavy jack gunline in Interdiction, even with fewer free points (just free Elias/Knight Seneschal for 20pts of Errants+Errant Senny) than in Creator's Might.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 25, 2018 20:50:38 GMT
I've also learned the hard way that Creator's Might is a scenario disaster in SR2017. Try transfering the concept into Exemplar Interdiction or Faithful Masses and see how it goes. I am much happier with my Sevvy1 heavy jack gunline in Interdiction, even with fewer free points (just free Elias/Knight Seneschal for 20pts of Errants+Errant Senny) than in Creator's Might. I really like oracular with 3 Shield guards (2 Templar, and blessing) it’s super strong into the right gunlines so that’s the main interaction I am going for with the BG. Also, Pow 21 And Pow 17 all at Mat 8 is super legit at cracking heavies
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 26, 2018 14:01:34 GMT
I've also learned the hard way that Creator's Might is a scenario disaster in SR2017. Try transfering the concept into Exemplar Interdiction or Faithful Masses and see how it goes. I am much happier with my Sevvy1 heavy jack gunline in Interdiction, even with fewer free points (just free Elias/Knight Seneschal for 20pts of Errants+Errant Senny) than in Creator's Might. Most of the faction has become a scenario disaster, it feels like. If I go second, I almost never get to pass the halfway line anymore, I usually run face first into gatormen posse or northkin. I can't just run forward and take a full alpha, I'll lose too much. I can't NOT run forward, I'll give up the game on scenario. I think the slow, clumpy, bricky, denial style of the faction simply doesn't seem to function quite right anymore. It's why thyra is so good, she plays in a totally different way. EDIT: Punctuation.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 26, 2018 14:05:44 GMT
It's really annoying when you can't post from your phone because the "Create Post" button suddenly stopped working...
CM is rough on scenario, no doubt. You have to mitigate that in list building. It's the reason I've started building Anastasia di Bray into my lists as the Merc solo option. She Ambushes, so can contest far flags bottom of 2 for things like Recon II and Spread the Net. Plus she can also zip in and contest on Standoff. This gives Sevy2 a critical turn to set up, get in range, and Feat crap off of those flags. Idrians are also a solid buy for him, as are Steelhead Halberdiers. Anything that can get up the field pronto.
Regarding Halbs, I like them as bubble wrap and a distraction. Guns are an issue, but remember: you are playing Sevy2. That's what your Feat is for. Armies that play shooting screens typically include Cygnar, Khador (sometimes), Protectorate, Mercs, Skorne, and Legion. Most of those armies don't have support or solos that you highly care about exploding with your Feat. And if you force them to come forward into Ashes to Ashes range to deal with your screen, awesome. The only army that stays pretty safe while being commanding at range now is, ironically, Khador. If you find the Halbs to be too expensive, you can nix the AP. Arcane Ward is good on them, but it's not like Sevy2 hates having it on himself, or on a 'jack that can now no longer be targeted by anything.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Mar 26, 2018 16:48:34 GMT
Most of the faction has become a scenario disaster, it feels like. If I go second, I almost never get to pass the halfway line anymore, I usually run face first into gatormen posse or northkin. I can't just run forward and take a full alpha, I'll lose too much. I can't NOT run forward, I'll give up the game on scenario. I think the slow, clumpy, bricky, denial style of the faction simply doesn't seem to function quite right anymore. It's why thyra is so good, she plays in a totally different way. EDIT: Punctuation. It doesn't feel like that here, to be honest. There are quite a lot of different, successful PoM builds among our top players and none of them are "slow, clumpy, bricky". Interdiction, Masses, Guardians, all have their representations under a variety of casters -especially Vindictus, High Reclaimer, Thyra, Harbinger, Durst... Those armies seem to be playing the scenario game very well with great speeds of Guardians / unkillable solos of Exemplar and Faithful, supported by survival tools provided by aforementioned casters. Anastasia is certainly a staple in most lists, for her scenario impact. As is good AD infantry available in those themes. The common denominator is that those armies are relatively light on warjacks. Warjack-heavy armies are rare because of this "slow, clumpy, bricky" aspect which holds them back in many SR2017 scenarios.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 26, 2018 17:14:35 GMT
Most of the faction has become a scenario disaster, it feels like. If I go second, I almost never get to pass the halfway line anymore, I usually run face first into gatormen posse or northkin. I can't just run forward and take a full alpha, I'll lose too much. I can't NOT run forward, I'll give up the game on scenario. I think the slow, clumpy, bricky, denial style of the faction simply doesn't seem to function quite right anymore. It's why thyra is so good, she plays in a totally different way. EDIT: Punctuation. It doesn't feel like that here, to be honest. There are quite a lot of different, successful PoM builds among our top players and none of them are "slow, clumpy, bricky". Interdiction, Masses, Guardians, all have their representations under a variety of casters -especially Vindictus, High Reclaimer, Thyra, Harbinger, Durst... Those armies seem to be playing the scenario game very well with great speeds of Guardians / unkillable solos of Exemplar and Faithful, supported by survival tools provided by aforementioned casters. Anastasia is certainly a staple in most lists, for her scenario impact as is good AD infantry available in those themes. The common denominator is that those armies are relatively light on warjacks. Warjack-heavy armies are rare because of this "slow, clumpy, bricky" aspect which holds them back in many SR2017 scenarios. This every time I feel like taking more than 3 jacks, I really struggle to justify replacing one of the units in the theme with a warjack. Even Sevvy2, who I think really supports jacks well by virtue of murdering infantry dead, I have found needs units like idrians or solos like punch monks to take command of the field and have a strong board presence.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 26, 2018 19:14:58 GMT
I have finally concocted a Sevvy 2 list in faithful Masses I like. conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0O0X1O24243q3k3k3E7z3t3t3B3B2_3G3H3G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (Severius 2) Hierarch Severius [+26] - Blessing of Vengeance [13] - Templar [15] - Templar [15] - Hierophant [0(3)] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Punch monks seem super legit here. Throwaway contesting peices that have steady tough and def 18 with dodge but a full advance and parry cuz reasons (how in the heck are they 3 POINTS! I am really loving double idrians, unless your opponent is really really good at removing the dug in versions they will almost always get work in and under sevvy 2 they become def 19 immune to spells muwahaha! Add in tough from rhupert and things get even more awesome! Also, something about a Pow 21 Templar makes me happy. I am thinking this will pair with either Thyra or Vindictus in Exemplar Interdiction. It depends on how well this list does into guns. If it cannot handle guns, I have to pair with Vinny to really wreck gunlines. If it does handle guns, I will pair with Thyra to deal with the harder skews. Like Madrack 1 Infantry spam or una2 with all the birbs. As a side note, I played a game with Thyra in Faithfull Masses. Really similar to my durst list actually but plays Soooo much different. Very aggressive, and it actually hits really hard . Idrians with Pow 16 Mat 10 under carnage and SoD is pretty intense. Blood of martyrs does not benefit much from the theme, but thyra loves the wall and Sanctifiers only hit slightly less hard the BoM and fuel themselves. I mean guys, if you want a caster that can run all our themes, here she is. She is a BEAST! I am really finding myself to be only building infantry lists now. I made a reznick 1 list in creators might and...that's it. Is this because CM is just not super good in SR2017, or is this more of a reflection to a speed issue for our jacks? I am unsure honestly. I think Reznick 2 actually runs CM very well...but what doesn't he run well honestly? Haha.
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Mar 26, 2018 21:05:33 GMT
As a side note, I played a game with Thyra in Faithfull Masses. Really similar to my durst list actually but plays Soooo much different. Very aggressive, and it actually hits really hard . Idrians with Pow 16 Mat 10 under carnage and SoD is pretty intense. Blood of martyrs does not benefit much from the theme, but thyra loves the wall and Sanctifiers only hit slightly less hard the BoM and fuel themselves. I mean guys, if you want a caster that can run all our themes, here she is. She is a BEAST! Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Just whoa. Blood doesn't get much benefit from the theme? ? ? Dang son, you crazy! Hand of Vengeance yo! Ain't nothing like a double apparating, sidestepping Mat 11 (Hand and Carnage), Pow 22 (Hand, SoD, and Battle) grievous wounds murder machine. Blood is so damn good with FM. Nestle him behind some idrians or beside vilmon for a shield guard and you have a super legit threat that they have to watch out for next turn. Not much survives nor can hide from a fully buffed Blood.
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Post by GYF on Mar 26, 2018 21:13:27 GMT
Well the Blood would get angry in any event, is the joke, because it has HoV as a default rule. Thyra is very good though, and I agree that the power of Prot is largely in its FM and therefore more infantry-based lists at the moment. Moving outside of that niche is something done either based on personal preference or because of a need to rise to certain challenges in the meta.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 26, 2018 23:08:32 GMT
wags as GYF has said, BoM already has HoV native to its card Technically he gets more benefit from EI because he gets to P+S 22 Mat 11 Grevious Wounds AND blessed
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Post by Gaston on Mar 27, 2018 10:59:55 GMT
I have finally concocted a Sevvy 2 list in faithful Masses I like. conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0O0X1O24243q3k3k3E7z3t3t3B3B2_3G3H3G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (Severius 2) Hierarch Severius [+26] - Blessing of Vengeance [13] - Templar [15] - Templar [15] - Hierophant [0(3)] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Do you need Rhupert?
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 27, 2018 11:36:52 GMT
Gaston no I don’t need him. But I am unsure of what to fill in the points with. If he deems himself unworthy I will probably drop a Mechanic and a Wrack as well as him (actually her because it’s the minicrate piper) for 2 Vassals.
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Post by Gaston on Mar 27, 2018 12:17:34 GMT
I think I like the Vassals better.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 27, 2018 13:05:14 GMT
I think I like the Vassals better. I think I do to, but I want to try to see how he increases idrian durability with tough or concealment on the non minifeat turns. I also really like 2 wracks and 2 mechanics because: 1: My wracks like to explode (apparently the people I put up there are not very sorry for their sins...the heretics) 2: Mechanics have actually been really relevant, especially considering my jacks are so slow they typically will take some damage or a charge before going in and oracular skews the math enough to give them good odds of survival. Repairing crippled arms and such can be pretty vital. I like having one, so I figured 2 may be even better. My other option is to drop the wracks entirely, but I have a feeling I am going to miss that extra focus in some games, even with the wrack + Hierophant I find myself spending a lot of Sevvy's stack each turn and sometimes that extra focus allows an important boosted roll, or that sweet oracular vision. Buttt.....enliven and oracular is so sexy I just desire to use it so much. Darn it...you convinced me...goodbye cute piper lady, hello cygnarian slaves! On a side note I played a game with sevvy into a Ragnor light-spam list yesterday It was going great till both my templars under battle and HoV failed to kill more than a single light each. One blew up the damage roll so no beat back into the axer, the other wiffed the damage roll so no bought attack into the bouncer. Also, sevvy somehow managed to roll a 3 and not kill the stone leader and his runebearer passed a tough check so my feat was basically useless Idrians with arcane ward are annoying to remove, idrians without arcane ward are not that annoying to remove. Need to practice jamming with punch monks. Those things are just absurd with how hard they are to kill. Also, the list certainly feels way more live on scenario, I was at 3 to 0 in the pit 2 on turn 3. Could have won 5-0 if my Templar's had done their jobs!
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