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Post by macdaddy on Jun 13, 2018 19:57:39 GMT
I don't really feel like this list is that slow. Minifeat on the Cinerators helps them get into position even without Desperate Pace. 11" threat on Templars is about what we get for the faction, which I guess is slow if you're comparing to other factions. Scenario elements are certainly big enough for us to get there, especially given the 2" deployment bonus from EI. I don't like Gravus either, and I'm not crazy about the Devout on Sevy0. I almost want to see a Wrack and two Repenters instead of that package. I don't think DP is necessary - you can only give it to one unit a turn anyway and you have the minifeat if you need to charge and reform. Plus Vengeance moves will give you surprising threat range. And if they aren't triggering those, aren't you winning? I like how this looks. ARM 23 Cinnies are juicy. So then the question is, what to I take over gravus? Do I put another Templar on Sevvy? Or just get rid of him and take some more exemplar? I liked the arm 20 SG to shunt random shots off templars with. But I would like it to be a bit more relevant.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jun 13, 2018 22:44:37 GMT
I was thinking drop Gravus and the Devout and stick two Repenters on Sevy0 plus a Wrack. RAT 6 Blessed Sprays don't suck. POW 13/15 doesn't either. ARM 19 under Decel demands heavy cracking power to disable through Passage, and Templars can always grab a critical shot. Plus you can spray through fire immune Cinnies to wash off jammers.
Importantly, this gives you consistent 14" threat projection with Road to War, something you are missing a bit. Guns help pressure people into your kill zone, which is why the speed buff from DP isn't vital.
Actually, I like this look so much I will probably give it a spin and see what happens.
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 15, 2018 14:25:06 GMT
Good points! I am gonna try the repenter build. I could always drop seevy0 as well, but mat 7 on the jacks and bringing the cinnerators back up to P+S 12 seems worth the free solo slot. My only concern is the repenters can become targets, but I guess I can just hide them being the wall of medium+ base models and call it a day Rat 6 Pow 15 on the sprays seems pretty legit!
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jun 15, 2018 17:16:59 GMT
I mean, they can by comparison but at ARM 19 DEF 14 not really. I wouldn't cut Sevy0 with them in.
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 15, 2018 17:57:01 GMT
I mean, they can by comparison but at ARM 19 DEF 14 not really. I wouldn't cut Sevy0 with them in. how are they def 14?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jun 15, 2018 19:02:16 GMT
Derp, never mind. Forgot Bulwark was BG only.
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 15, 2018 23:29:46 GMT
Derp, never mind. Forgot Bulwark was BG only. Still they should be really hard to draw LoS to
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jun 16, 2018 4:04:01 GMT
Truth. I still really like the list. Next I get a chance I am taking it for a ride.
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 19, 2018 1:15:30 GMT
Truth. I still really like the list. Next I get a chance I am taking it for a ride. Took it for a ride into caine3, dice kind of failed my opponent but basically I was able to win on scenario. Cinerators were alright. Slow as flipping cold molasses. But the minifeat allowed me to get into the zones which is cool. Arm 23 is a pain to remove, it basically took his whole army plus calamity to remove the cinerator unit at arm 23. I only ran with one repenter, but it did manage to kill some trenchers before I won on scenario. I need to keep testing it and see how broad its match ups are and how well it handles lists like Sloan 5X5 and double tep/double turtle. I am really concerned about speed and threat range. everything is speed 4 and its pain-full hah. I am hoping it is deceptively speedy with vengeance and maybe gade will get back desperate pace which would help A LOT.
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 22, 2018 2:19:28 GMT
Some more games in. 1 with Durst 1 with Sevvy. Lots of learning from both as usual! I’ll be trying to post tomorrow!
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 3, 2018 19:59:49 GMT
Another report for you (finally!) Testing the durst list to see what it can and cannot handle match up wise. I changed the list a bit to include 2 repenters under sevvy instead of just one, because the one has been doing some great work for me. My List:Durst: EI -Templar -Templar -Devout -Hierophant Sevvy0 -Repenter -Repenter Ellias Gade Wrack 2 Mechanics Min Chior 2 X Max Cinerators with UA My opponents list:
Caine3: LR -Galleon -Ace Tinkerer Eillish Rhuppert Max Rocketmen, UA, 3 WA Max CG Rifles with UA I lost the roll off and my opponent chose sides. We ended up playing Spread the net. Turn 1: Protectorate:
Lots of Running, this army is so slow -__- Durst puts up everything but Hallowed Avenger. Mercs:
Lots of running. Turn 2: Protectorate:
More Cautious now. Cinerators waddle up and Shieldwall (UGGGHHHHH SOOOO SLOOOOWWWW) Durst does NOT feat because I wanna save it for when the lines clash a bit more and I think between SG, decel and bullwark, I should be pretty safe. Turn 1 P Small.png (580.33 KB) Turn 1 M Small.png (574.77 KB) Turn 2 P.png (654.7 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 3, 2018 20:19:14 GMT
Mercs: (forgot picture :/ sorry)Caine Plops Calamity on the Red Cinerators (I chanted no spells on jacks since all his relevant guns are magic) Caine feats, his squad does a crap-load of damage to the red Templar (even though it was dice off 11ish. Ace, goes, I SG to deny the magic bullet, he chips the devout for a few damage damage. Some other shots from the rocketman beat on the red tempalar. Rifleman try to shoot the Red templar, and I SG the first shot the yellow templar, bad damage roll means it does 1 damage. The second shot, pings it for a few more damage and leaves the red Templar on about 7 boxes. The Galleon, manages to only roll 3 shots, but he makes up for it by one shotting the cinerator UA, and another cinerator (dice off 6 with feat) The giant harpoon kills a 3rd guy. (no minifeat for me...) Score: Mercs: 1, Protectorate: 0
Turn 3: Protectorate:
I allocate some focus to the repenters and the yellow templar. My yellow Templar kills a rifleman, but wiffs the attack rolls into the rocketman (no cleared zone) I trigger road to war for the yellow repenter, who aims and murders 2 rocketmen. The red repenters triggers road to war and kills 3 more. My opponent spread out really well to deny sprays. Ellias kills a rifleman and a rocketman. The red tempar waddles backwards to safety. A mechanic basses with him. Durst pops feat, casts, decel, and boundless on a red cinerator I also feat. I manage to get a cinerator into the galleon and another into a rocketman. At mat 8 and P+S 12 WM I do a solid punch to the galleon and murder the rocket. Yellow cinerators waddle behind in charge range of the galleon and SW. Score: Mercs: 1, Protectorate:0 Mercs: (forgot pic again...)My jacks are basically untouchable. (arm 27 templars and arm 24 Devout. No Galleon and 3 SG means the repenters are safe at arm 19. He does some more work into my cinerators. The galleon and Caine, Kill 2 red cinnies (in melee and a few wiffed attack and damage rolls). But the galleon wiffs its damage rolls on the yellow unit pretty hard. Leaving 5 yellow cinerators and 1 red left. Rockets kill chior boys and ellias. Score: Mercs: 2, Protectorate:0Turn 4: Protectorate:Repenters go full focus. Yellow templar goes full focus. Devout gets 1 focus. Rocketman went the Def 16 route but they are more clumped up. I capitalize on this by leveraging road to war to aim spray, with both repenters, Killing 5 more rockets. (boosted rat 8 Baby) My devout wiffs and only kills a single rifleman, SO my templar has to kill the remianing rifles instead of finishing the galleon. Red cinerators kills 2 rifleman to clear the zone. Yellow, Cinerators manage to charge (Pow 12 Weaponmaster woohoo) and with some absurd damage spikes (rolling 14's on 4 dice) I manage to leave the already beat up galleon on one box. I minifeated so I am repo5 with sheildwall to be harder to remove. Red templar gets repaired to fully functioning, and durst hides behind it camping 2 to be safe. Red cinerators kills 2 rifleman to clear the zone. Score: Mercs: 2, Protectorate: 1
Mercs:
Rifleman and ace do their best to Kill things. Trickshot manages to kill sevvy0 (by this point its ok though) Some awful dice rolls leave mean he only kills 2 yellow cinerators with caine and the galleon.... Score: mercs: 2, Protectorate: 1 Turn 5: Protectorate:
My cinerators kill the galleon with vengence swings and my opponent decides to concede. (caine camping nuthin facing down a whole unit of cinnies) Overview:Big takeaways are as follows1: The Repenters boat is awesome. I love how thier stats sit in a sweet spot of threatening all sorts of infantry targets. Rat 8 with aiming and Eye, Pow 15 with battle and eye, is that sweet spot where high Def is vulnerable, and arm lower than 20 is also vulnerable. That’s a lot of infantry in the game. Add in blessed to ignore most buffs that make models of the more absurd Def and a variety and it gets even better. They are also super respectable In Melee. Mat 7 Pow 16 Blessed is very respectable from a jack with a strong gun. 2: Eye of Menoth is amazing. Mat 7 Templars, Pow 12 Cinerators. It fixes a lot of the issues the list would normally struggle with. Sevvy0 is a must for sure! 3: Cinerators May be a bit less durable to dedicated shooting. Facing down calamity, and some high pow boostable guns was scary. I need to start stress testing this list more into the higher pow gunlines to be sure. 4: ITS SOOO SLOW. Against a control caster I’m in trouble. SPD4 is rough and I am really concerned about the Magnus, Haley2, and other such match ups. I’m afraid this weakness is going to cause me issues as I play more games. Here’s hoping desperate pace goes back on to Elias. Rant: can I just say how annoying it is that other factions with slow infantry get DP on non character solos. But for some reason we get stuck with it on a character solo...ugh. Turn 4 M Small.png (561.09 KB) Turn 4 P Small.png (537.85 KB) Turn 3 P Small.png (540.62 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 4, 2018 12:30:23 GMT
Hello everyone, got another report coming at ya today. Its a long one! I am practicing for NOVA this year. My planned pairing is Sevvy2 and Vindictus Here are the lists: Sevvy2: FM -Hierophant -Judicator -Blessing Max Idirans with UA Min Chior Villmon 2 Champs 2 Punch Monks 3 Mechaniks 2 Wracks Vassal Villmon Vindictus: EI -Hierophant -2 Reckoners 2 Max Errants 3 Knights E 2 Knights E Senny Gade Gravus 2 Wracks I am pretty content with the sevvy list build wise. I just need a lot of practice with it for better time management as there are lots of important choices to make each turn and positioning is mega important. I am less happy with the Vindictus list. Primarily used to handle guns and jack spam/arm spam. I am afraid it bounces off most hard lists. I would like to fit sevvy0 in there somehow, with a dervish or devout as his BG, but fixing the points for that is pretty difficult. This game is with Sevvy2, I am really stress testing him, attempting to just drop him into any list I can face to see his strengths and weaknesses. My opponent was playing mercs, he had a magnus2 nomad spam list and a Constance blaze dudespam list. I asked him, if I had vinny in my pair, what he would drop, and he said he would drop constance, to have a chance into vindictus. I think I have to drop Vinny, because sevvy is incapable of eating 5-6 nomads without losing too much. Where vindictus can just wreck them. The scenario was spread the net, my opponent chose sides sticking me with a really rough bunching of obstructions causing headaches for deployment. Turn 1 Protectorate:I take my time and advance cautiously, not wanting to commit at all to prevent losing a large number of models early for no reason. Hilariously I manage to lob 2 Hex blasts and eiriss and get a perfect scatter, killing eiriss wit the blast damage. Arcane ward (AW) goes on the idrians and the rest of the army runs or uses stances where applicable. Mercs:Croes moves up and fails to kill anything missing the monk and letting him walk into melee with 2 of them and be in the zone. Nyss do a 7 man CRA into my champ and do about 3 damage. Rest of the army runs. Connie pops her radiance spell and feat. Turn 2: Protectorate:I upkeep arcane ward. I want to try and kill all of croes, create a fiery cloudwall on the left, and dent the Toro. I derp and forget counterchagre, but luckily def 15 saves my bacon. Idrians settle for shooting croes and kill 2 or 3 of them. On the right the champ charges and kills 3 nyss. He repo's to be annoying. Sevy Activates, feats, and boost damage on the knights he affects, only dialing up 3 dudes. He kills a croe, a knight, and wiffs damage on the middle knight. Lastly he pops awareness. and thats it. Judicator Kills some croes and a precursor. Champ on left kills more croes. Monk SS and kills another croe. Vassal Gives Judi a Focus to let him Oracular. To be continued for image uploads Turn 1 M Small.png (578.8 KB) Turn 1 P Small.png (551.72 KB) Turn 2 P Small.png (575.92 KB)
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Aug 4, 2018 14:27:22 GMT
Vindictus: EI -Hierophant -2 Reckoners 2 Max Errants 3 Knights E 2 Knights E Senny Gade Gravus 2 Wracks I am less happy with the Vindictus list. Primarily used to handle guns and jack spam/arm spam. I am afraid it bounces off most hard lists. I would like to fit sevvy0 in there somehow, with a dervish or devout as his BG, but fixing the points for that is pretty difficult. Loving the reports.
I'll chip in on Vindictus if I may. I haven't been following the entire thread, so sorry if this isn't fitting input or has already been given.
If by 'bounce off' you mean needing more POW, adding officers to your KE is a good option. The two options for getting them in would be (i) swapping 1-2 free cards to KE officers, or dropping some of the focus support for it. 1 wrack is enough to get DW and penitence out while casting true path every turn, so it's at least worth considering IMO.
I'll also throw out there the notion of a Bastion Senny for one of your free cards. I've had my front line obstruct the KE so many times (mainly because Vindictus does a good job at getting the front line there alive) that I'm never running Vindictus EI without tactician from now on.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 5, 2018 6:20:39 GMT
Mercs:
Connie upkeeps Radiance. The Knights on the left manage to (thanks to connies boost) hit the punch monk first try and kill him, but fail to kill the champ, only dismounting him. Connie tries to finish him off but I make my tough check and he wiffs damage for the second sunburst. She also pops Crusaders call. Gallant charges my Judicator, doing a solid chunk of damage but oracular basically means Judi is not even half dead. On the right, the Nyss wiff horribly and manage to not even dismount the champion of the wall. Versh kills a couple idrians. The Middle unit of Knights Shieldwall and hide. Score: Mercs: 1, Protectorate:0 Turn 3:Protectorate:Sevvy upkeeps Arcane ward. Allocates 1 to the Judicator. Chior Sings Battle. Vassal gives Judi a focus. Mechanics heal him for about 11 damage. Judicator wails on Gallant, needing to boost to hit (def 15 behind the wall) He leaves gallant on about 10 boxes. Villmon charges the Toro and does about 6 or 7 damage. Idrians charge 2 into gallant, and 5 into the toro. I kill gallant, swap prey to the toro, and then thanks to some really solid spikes manage to kill the toro with the charging idrians. Blessing of Vengeance runs to be within 8" and in the back arc of a Nyss. Sevvy targets the same nyss with a Ashes to ashes hoping to bounce into Versh and another nyss. I Boost, needing an 8, and miss, hitting the champ, bouncing 3 times and killing 2 nyss as well as doing 2 damage to the champ. I attempt it again, needing a 10 now and miss again, hitting the champ, bouncing and killing another nyss. wa wa. My punch monk on the left, stands on the flag. My champ tries to kill some nyss but misses every single attack. Score: Mercs: 2, Protectorate: 1
Mercs:
Its do or die time for my opponent, he pushes for a scenario swing.Constance just kind of hangs out and camps, casting crusaders call. On the left Knights charge and with a boost from connie a single knight lands the 11 and kills him. Another knight charges the Judi and does a few damage. The middle unit runs/charges killing an idrian and getting a few caught on fire. But jamming me and contesting all my zones. Nyss manage to dismount the champ, but he kills one with the ret strike. Versh tries to base the flag, get in the champs back arc and dials up 2 shots he forces a tough check which I pass. Score: Mercs: 3, Protecotrate: 1
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