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Post by macdaddy on Feb 26, 2018 2:04:17 GMT
Woldwrath is in a pretty good spot. It doesn't NEED anything, but magical fists and a one-point drop would be some nice quality of life boosts. Storm Raptor has so many points of complaint it's really just a matter of what direction they decide to take it. I would assume MAT 6 and a larger radius on the animus at the bare minimum. With the recent changes to other gargossals Me thinks the wrath deserves to drop 2 points and gain a bit more oomph. It was great in early Mk3, but power creep is leaving it behind. Magic weapons is needed mostly because it never made sense that it lacks them. If the wrath is our Durable Anchor Gaarg, the Raptor should be our Offensive Shenanigans Garg. Which it is almost accomplishing. Mat increase, animus increase, and points drop would help it a-lot. It already wrecks infantry and can eat a heavy or 2. Mat 5 is just absolute trash and we really need a way to buff it other than Primal...
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Post by oncomingstorm on Feb 26, 2018 8:16:31 GMT
Woldwrath is in a pretty good spot. It doesn't NEED anything, but magical fists and a one-point drop would be some nice quality of life boosts. Storm Raptor has so many points of complaint it's really just a matter of what direction they decide to take it. I would assume MAT 6 and a larger radius on the animus at the bare minimum. With the recent changes to other gargossals Me thinks the wrath deserves to drop 2 points and gain a bit more oomph. It was great in early Mk3, but power creep is leaving it behind. Magic weapons is needed mostly because it never made sense that it lacks them. If the wrath is our Durable Anchor Gaarg, the Raptor should be our Offensive Shenanigans Garg. Which it is almost accomplishing. Mat increase, animus increase, and points drop would help it a-lot. It already wrecks infantry and can eat a heavy or 2. Mat 5 is just absolute trash and we really need a way to buff it other than Primal... I'm almost tempted to say improve the gun (so it doesn't need it's animus) and swap the animus for slipstream. Don't think it'd be OP on a garg, would play into our movement shenaginans that we lost in Mk3, etc...and seriously, we don't have nearly enough lightning in the faction for that animus to be particularly worthwhile I would really prefer to see Reload(1) on the Woldwrath over a point drop.
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Post by jisidro on Feb 26, 2018 9:54:17 GMT
If a very good spot is colossal-like resilience with 1 shot, 2 initials and an animus that will never impact his own performance I don't know what to tell you... Just compare it with the Dracodile or the Mammoth.
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Post by musza on Feb 26, 2018 10:20:32 GMT
If they want to buff the Wold Wrath they would do it already during the Bones CiD. I expect to see a Storm Raptor buff tho. My guess is +2 cmnd, +1 arm and a point drop (2-3).
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Feb 26, 2018 12:23:14 GMT
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Post by macdaddy on Feb 26, 2018 12:23:14 GMT
If a very good spot is colossal-like resilience with 1 shot, 2 initials and an animus that will never impact his own performance I don't know what to tell you... Just compare it with the Dracodile or the Mammoth. Compare it to Gargs in early mk3 and you’ll see what I am talking about. Back before themes and CiD it was actually pretty decent when you compared. Power creep just left it in the dust. musza if they don’t address the wrath I’m going to be very upset. It’s obvious how behind the curve it is compared to Gargs post CiD
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Post by jisidro on Feb 26, 2018 12:26:41 GMT
If a very good spot is colossal-like resilience with 1 shot, 2 initials and an animus that will never impact his own performance I don't know what to tell you... Just compare it with the Dracodile or the Mammoth. Compare it to Gargs in early mk3 and you’ll see what I am talking about. Back before themes and CiD it was actually pretty decent when you compared. Power creep just left it in the dust. I think it was decent in circle in very specific conditions. As is, I don't even expect good results from Baldur2 + WW. But we'll see.
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Post by macdaddy on Feb 26, 2018 13:35:16 GMT
jisidro the thing is, even back when I liked it, I only ever really got it to work under baldur1 and 2. It’s sad, comparably it’s not that far in power level from the Mountain king (less powerful due to whelp shedding, animus and assault+kill shot) but we lack the dedicated in faction support for it like other factions have for thier Gargs, which further exacerbates the issue of it feeling below the curve. If we had similar in faction support, I would say all it needs are tweaks. The more I think about other faction Gargs and compare the more I would like to see the following: +1 STR Magic Weapons Drop 2 points Gun becomes +1 Pow.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Feb 26, 2018 13:45:12 GMT
jisidro the thing is, even back when I liked it, I only ever really got it to work under baldur1 and 2. It’s sad, comparably it’s not that far in power level from the Mountain king (less powerful due to whelp shedding, animus and assault+kill shot) but we lack the dedicated in faction support for it like other factions have for thier Gargs, which further exacerbates the issue of it feeling below the curve. If we had similar in faction support, I would say all it needs are tweaks. The more I think about other faction Gargs and compare the more I would like to see the following: +1 STR Magic Weapons Drop 2 points Gun becomes +1 Pow. Resonable proposal. Not sure about the STR thought. After following Blightbringer CID process cautiously I will gues AOE5 gun with more than 1 shot is out of question. Especially with good scather effect. Other thing you should remember is the fact that spell immunity is HUGE for gargantuan, debuffs are super effective on them.
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Feb 26, 2018 13:50:20 GMT
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Post by macdaddy on Feb 26, 2018 13:50:20 GMT
whydak I don’t disagree, the spell immunity is super strong in the right match ups. The strength is to compensate for buffs given to the rest of the other wolds and to make it more of a bruiser. Pow 20 means it can wreck more than 1 Heavy a turn, something other Gargs can do post CiD. Look at the Khador collossals...pow 23!
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Post by jisidro on Feb 26, 2018 17:18:51 GMT
macdaddyWe agree in general, I'm just not sure we'll get more POW since we have the Stoneshaper now. POW 21 sounds about right. Since I don't see him getting more attacks I think he'll get a cost reduction only.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Feb 26, 2018 18:23:32 GMT
Deceptively mobile on the storm raptor would absolutely be too strong, I think. Not that I'd say no to that, but...
ROF2 would be good, having sky fire be a built-in ability instead of an animus (make the animus something useful, like Rage) would be better, and mat will definitely go up a point.
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Post by macdaddy on Feb 26, 2018 19:43:27 GMT
Deceptively mobile on the storm raptor would absolutely be too strong, I think. Not that I'd say no to that, but... ROF2 would be good, having sky fire be a built-in ability instead of an animus (make the animus something useful, like Rage) would be better, and mat will definitely go up a point. Rage in circle would take...a lot of testing to balance.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Feb 27, 2018 0:33:28 GMT
Deceptively mobile on the storm raptor would absolutely be too strong, I think. Not that I'd say no to that, but... ROF2 would be good, having sky fire be a built-in ability instead of an animus (make the animus something useful, like Rage) would be better, and mat will definitely go up a point. Rage in circle would take...a lot of testing to balance. Rage in Circle would be fine, provided it's on a living beast. - No access to rage in Bones - No access to Wolds in CoTW - Any other theme, if you're taking a large BG, you're losing out on free points. Not seeing the issue. I'd prefer Rush or Slipstream, if we're talking Circle getting another strong animus (which we should get, we have the lowest number of any hordes faction), but I don't see rage as being OP. chuggyg - deceptively mobile on the Storm Raptor would also not be OP. I fail to see how you came to this conclusion.
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Post by jisidro on Feb 27, 2018 10:53:36 GMT
I don't think they'll make a Circle-Archangel... Both are already similar without making them the same.
I'd be happy with ROF 2, MAT 6 and a point reduction like all have had so far.
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Post by streetpizza on Feb 27, 2018 15:52:25 GMT
I have high hopes for the raptor after the garg/colossal changes in the last 2 CIDs!! If I somehow run into double turtles I'd probably dump my Morvahna2 list into it, which is as follows: Morv2 -Stalker -Feral -Wold Wight Gallows Grove Lanyssa War Wolf Reeves -UA Wolves (min) -UA Skinwalkers -UA Shifting Stones -UA Lynus + Edrea With Fog of War up he needs 10s (12s if i mini feat!) to hit my reeves and 8s to hit my skinwalkers with his gun, and anything else he'd want to target is going to be stealth from prowl and/or too high defense for him to hit (he'll need 10s at best to hit morv2, and that's if I don't find a hill or cover. I'm sure as heck never going to have her in a spot where he can take an aim bonus.) He'll only get 1 turn of defensive strike to deter my heavies from coming in and smooshing his dudes. If I can get a decent forest on the board I can park the stalker behind it and can control a 13" bubble with him. I'll leverage the heck out of Lightning Strike on Morv2 and the Stalker and play a long attrition game, which heavily favors Morvahna2 with her feat. I know from playing against skorne previously that Morv2 can easily snipe out agonizers with Sunder Spirit and 5" reposition, and with the ranged game favoring me, I'll play towards the edges of the board, clear the little bastards out, and force him to eat the big charge turn from my ambushing wolves. There's some worry I can get bullied out of the zones, so it might come down to which scenario/terrain setup we'd get. You have erred in your maths sir. The derp turtle has burst fire so against Morv2 they'll be Rat 7 so 8's to hit not 10's at a minimum. Add in eyeless sight from the extoller and he's ignoring your concealment from fog of war. Now tack on that most derp lists will be with Rasheth and the feat makes you -2def so its 6s to hit on dice +2 damage because of the feat (or +4 damage if he gets the spell on you). All in all its a bad bad matchup for Morv2. Tack on castigate for the inability to use your animi and it becomes truly miserable.
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