gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 14, 2018 21:03:06 GMT
Curious to see if he sees much play. He seems like he would be brutal with Masters of War.
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Post by oranjejus on Feb 14, 2018 22:40:24 GMT
I played this in my pair for a year. I won more than I lost against themed lists with free points but that's only anecdotal. Added in brackets the post-MoW release additions for reference (basically, the free additions it was suddenly eligible for) Xerxis1 - Basilisk Krea - Aradus Soldier - Aradus Soldier Zaadesh1 - Titan Gladiator Mortitheurge Willbreaker (Tyrant Commander and Standard) Max Praetorian Karax (- Officer and Standard) Max Praetorian Swordsmen - Officer and Standard Legends of Halaak Min Paingiver Beast Handlers Pre-MoW the swordsmen had notable achievements by comfortably assassinating Karchev with attacks to spare, one-rounding ARM buffed Mountain Kings, killing multiple warpwolves in a turn, etc. Losses were always from me letting the list down with my play, the list never let me down. I'm sure it'll be meta-dependant, but I found this worked against both high arm and high def, terrain heavy boards, infantry and beast/jack spams. Weakest into ranged, but still game there thanks to carapace, force aura, shield wall, SR2017 terrain placement, wall of steady beast-meat blocking LOS, etc. The biggest thing that needs practice is how to use and protect both Xerxis and Zaadesh properly _at the same time_. Xerxis himself is up the front a lot: tactician only works in his CTRL bubble. Zaadesh also plays forward to take flags and tag teams with the Gladiator mid-late game. One is obviously game loss if played wrong, the other can lead to it. But don't hold them back. Get them in there and get them doing work. e.g. Xerxis can have pseudo sprint with Tac Supremacy (never forget he has Overtake.) I've played many lists with him, he's my most played caster edging out Makeda3 (Zaal1 is on the rise at the moment tho...) And his personal mobility can drive people insane. He loves Archidons, and with various combinations of Push to the Limit, Sprint, Overtake, and Tac Supremacy, I've had some grand laughs with opponents who thought he was caught in a trap moments before. And the Lurch angles.... people rarely see those Soldiers coming. Enough reminiscing. He's got a heap of versatility even within the seemingly narrow field of MoW restrictions. Experiment and have fun Edit: quick last note - the hardest part for me personally to learn with Xerxis1 was time management. It was stupid easy to try and be too clever planning how to abuse Tactician (and by gods did I abuse it wherever I could) and I spent way more time than I should when working it all out. Then there's the number of dice rolls and side-steps there were to make. A lot of tough rolls as well. My "wins more than losses" is only from where I actually played games to "meaningful" conclusions. If I count the first several months there were far too many losses on clock in there. I did conquer that issue in the end tho.
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Post by jonwill on Feb 15, 2018 9:07:13 GMT
I've been playing this lately to decent effect. I'm currently testing it into everything I can to see where it's limits lie, so fair the main problem has been dealing with lots of high def dudes, Satyxis and Grotesques have given me particular trouble. The List : conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0Z4b6r6V5G2Qcv5P6KcS5U676hSkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Masters of War (Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28] - Agonizer [6] - Tiberion [22] - Titan Gladiator [15] Feralgeist [2] Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4] Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18] - Tyrant Vorkesh [0(6)] Cataphract Incindiarii (min) [11] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Praetorian Ferox (max) [20] Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [0(6)] The cats with a Tycom make a lot of people very scared, especially when you put Defender's Ward on them. The Incendiarii I have found very handy for dealing with infantry and annoying solos, but their short range usually gets them killed even with Tactical Supremacy to get them away again. The Cetrati though are a great Zone holder and also quite the killers especially on the feat turn, 5d6 charges will kill most things it turns out. Vorkesh giving Steady and Sacred Ward has been incredibly helpful too. The Mortithuerge was originally my only flag scorer, until I dropped the Beast Handlers to a minimum unit and snuck the Feralgeist in. Adding tough to the cats just makes them that much more annoying too. He's a good caster but Fury 5 is a little limiting when going in with the beasts, but lurch helps you throw Tibbers 14" or line up some sweet Grand Slams from the Titan. My only concern is the lack of magical weapons aside from Xerxis and Vorkesh.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Feb 15, 2018 14:37:07 GMT
This is the list I'm of:
War Room Army
Skorne - warriorsvxerxes
Theme: Masters of War 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Tyrant Xerxis - WB: +28 - Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Agonizer - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Archidon - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
Tyrant Rhadeim - PC: 9 - Tyrant Rhadeim (Continued) Mortitheurge Willbreaker - PC: 4 Mortitheurge Willbreaker - PC: 4
Praetorian Swordsmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Praetorian Ferox - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Praetorian Karax - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 - Praetorian Karax Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer - Tyrant & Bearer: 0 Legends of Halaak - Valgesh, CIdaar & J'Deth: 8 Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer - Tyrant & Bearer: 0
THEME: Masters of War
I figure the Karax become an incredibly difficult roadblock if I want them to, and reposition makes it really easy for them to get up the board or move back into shield wall. They block LoS to my Swordsmen who also become immune to blast damage thanks to girded. No one gets in each other's way thanks to Tactician. Everyone hits really hard thanks to feat and Stir the Blood. It would deal well with most infantry spam thanks to ignoring tough and RFP. Also note that their RFP triggers on boxed, not destroyed, which will also stop most (all?) corpse and soul collection. Kreas and feat and defenders Ward should make it safe from any non-blessed shooting. Feat and tough still giving me mitigating factors there. I have fun surprising Assassination vectors with my beasts on feat turn, especially with Lurch on the Archidon. Also Kreas hit kinda hard on feat turn. And Xerxes charging through a wall of his own infantry, aiming a smite to knockdown a path to their caster, and then Lightning Striking back to safety behind a wall of soldiers should be hilarious.
Stuff I'm concerned about:
shooting Xerxes off the table. I haven't got lots of medium bases to hide him behind (though I do have SOME) and he needs to be front and center.
High DEF spam. Ferrox get boosted charges, and the Legends have pretty high MAT, CMA from Karax, but... Casters like Jalaam and Fyanna2 could be an issue.
Puncture and similar rules that automatically do damage without attacking. My only safety there is tough rolls?
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Mar 14, 2018 3:47:53 GMT
Xerxis was always my favorite caster in MK1 so I've been trying to regulate him back into my cycle. I'm still fine tuning this list but it is definitely competitive.
Tyrant Xerxis -Basilisk Krea -Agonizer -Razor Worm (for animus) -Tiberion
Cataphract Cetrati (max) -Tyrant Vorkesh (free) Praetorian Swordsmen (max) -Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard -Cataphract Arcuarii (max) Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (free) Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (free) Legends of Halaak
3/3 Free Cards- 74/75 pts
There are a few things I'm still questioning in the list, such as the Legends of Halaak, but this list gets around the biggest issues skorne infantry have while still being beefy enough to wreck house, especially on feat turn. Both Tycoms and Xerxis can give faction models Pathfinder, allowing all 3 of the main units to pass through the board unhindered. Placing Tactical Supremacy on the Celtari first turn, as well as giving them the +2 inches from a tycom allows them to move 10 inches up the board and still shield wall. That turn, Xerxis can place the defender's ward on either the swordsmen or the Arcuarii depending on who is being threatened the most. My questionable choices are the Razor Worm + Legends of Halaak, who could be switched for a Rhinodon and a solo, (1 tycom would disappear) as well as if I should go double swordsmen, no swordsmen and another unit of Arcuarii, or even toss in an Incindiarii.
The reason I don't have paingivers is because, at the current time, my beat stick is my infantry, not my beasts. Tibs only job is as a deterrent and an important piece annihilator if someone decides to get bold.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 14, 2018 17:52:51 GMT
Xerxis was always my favorite caster in MK1 so I've been trying to regulate him back into my cycle. I'm still fine tuning this list but it is definitely competitive. Tyrant Xerxis -Basilisk Krea -Agonizer -Razor Worm (for animus) -Tiberion Cataphract Cetrati (max) -Tyrant Vorkesh (free) Praetorian Swordsmen (max) -Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard -Cataphract Arcuarii (max) Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (free) Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (free) Legends of Halaak 3/3 Free Cards- 74/75 pts There are a few things I'm still questioning in the list, such as the Legends of Halaak, but this list gets around the biggest issues skorne infantry have while still being beefy enough to wreck house, especially on feat turn. Both Tycoms and Xerxis can give faction models Pathfinder, allowing all 3 of the main units to pass through the board unhindered. Placing Tactical Supremacy on the Celtari first turn, as well as giving them the +2 inches from a tycom allows them to move 10 inches up the board and still shield wall. That turn, Xerxis can place the defender's ward on either the swordsmen or the Arcuarii depending on who is being threatened the most. My questionable choices are the Razor Worm + Legends of Halaak, who could be switched for a Rhinodon and a solo, (1 tycom would disappear) as well as if I should go double swordsmen, no swordsmen and another unit of Arcuarii, or even toss in an Incindiarii. The reason I don't have paingivers is because, at the current time, my beat stick is my infantry, not my beasts. Tibs only job is as a deterrent and an important piece annihilator if someone decides to get bold. I tried running Xerxes1 without paingivers but still using Krea to protect my dudes. I found a couple things: One Krea is not enough. You can't cover nearly enough of your army, and they will just shoot the rest. You would think Xerxes1 could cast it and maybe get what you need, but just putting out but his upkeeps on first turn blows all your fury, and if you don't get first turn, you WILL need your Krea animus if you are facing any shooting. Running a Krea pretty much requires use of Paingivers (or possibly a Gobbers Chef) or they will frenzy if you ever want to use your animus. And if you are running without using its animus, why is it in your list? It's such an issue that I considered replacing Krea entirely with Cyclops Brutes. But the mostly the only kind of shooting that is a danger to Xerxes1 is anything with a decent number of shots. And the requires more Shield Guards than I could field. I've also found Tiberion to be completely overkill. On feat turn Xerxes1 hits so hard that I've never found his hitting power needed. Some fun alternate uses for Paingivers: with their reach, they are actually fairly good at unjamming your dude-walls. They can often get to a rear arc to boost their hitting to acceptable levels and they can run through your guys with Tactician easily enough. On feat turn, they can be another buffer to help you keep your +2 base to base armor bonus.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Mar 14, 2018 22:34:35 GMT
I'll have to take this all into consideration. However, I should add that I tend to run Xerxis pretty hot, letting his stats take some of the damage if it's necessary. This is mainly because I've been taught to take as much of the field as possible as quickly as possible. This does 2 things: limits the number of turns that ranged units get to shoot (I have no qualms with running swordsmen into a line of infantry if it keeps them from firing) at your melee pieces and provides severe pressure to the opposing side of the board. I'm only using the Krea as a delivery piece in which by my third turn I'll no longer be using him. During those two turns, where I'm burning his fury down, I'll NEED the additional fury from the Krea. At the same time, without the Krea, I could afford a full unit of beast handlers who can also heal my beasties.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 14, 2018 22:57:32 GMT
I'll have to take this all into consideration. However, I should add that I tend to run Xerxis pretty hot, letting his stats take some of the damage if it's necessary. This is mainly because I've been taught to take as much of the field as possible as quickly as possible. This does 2 things: limits the number of turns that ranged units get to shoot (I have no qualms with running swordsmen into a line of infantry if it keeps them from firing) at your melee pieces and provides severe pressure to the opposing side of the board. I'm only using the Krea as a delivery piece in which by my third turn I'll no longer be using him. During those two turns, where I'm burning his fury down, I'll NEED the additional fury from the Krea. At the same time, without the Krea, I could afford a full unit of beast handlers who can also heal my beasties. My Xerxes ran pretty hot too. I used Lightning Strike to run him back behind a dude-wall to keep him safe. My Krea did very little after turn 2, as by then I had fully engaged, but I really needed them on my way in. On feat turn they can still do some work though. Ps14 + 3d6 is pretty good for a model you don't care about losing. Occasionally they get to line up a shot at the enemy caster or high defense beast to try and paralyze it. I highly recommend Ferrox for tying up enemy lines. They do amazing things with Defenders Ward, and love both the March and +2 damage orders from Xerxes1. You seem to be going the Cetrati route though, so you may not find things as dire as I do without ranged protection.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Mar 15, 2018 2:48:16 GMT
yeah, the cetrati, being immune to enemy spells means their constant 22 armor (thanks to krea and aggy) can't be debuffed by abilities like parasite, making them a wall among walls as they already have tough and 5 boxes. Since I run double kitty under Mak2 I tend to continuously judge their ability usage on that, where a willbreaker is also giving them tough and they are receiving dodge from rhadeim, but that list is crazy and drives people bonkers If there is anything you should remember it's to keep your caster from the center of the action where they can easily be unloaded upon. Due to errors that can occur with lightning strike, I much prefer to armor him up and hide him behind my impenetrable wall. Acruarii are actually excellent pieces to place your defender's ward on instead... unless your opponent is hell bent on killing them the moment the game starts x.O; With a pow 12 weaponmaster 8 inch range weapon and a pow 12 weaponmaster 2 inch melee weapon, they can easily wreck whatever they drag in (which gets hit by both weapons in the same turn) Since they lack assault, you can have fun giving them an additional 2 inches from the Tycom and threat a glorious 15 inches that tends to catch your opponent by surprise. Light jacks, medium based infantry, and anything sitting on a small base can easily be broken apart and overwhelmed by them as they casually drag them off to your side of the board On feat turn they can easily surpass even heavy beasts in damage output (the unit).
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 15, 2018 13:41:40 GMT
yeah, the cetrati, being immune to enemy spells means their constant 22 armor (thanks to krea and aggy) can't be debuffed by abilities like parasite, making them a wall among walls as they already have tough and 5 boxes. Since I run double kitty under Mak2 I tend to continuously judge their ability usage on that, where a willbreaker is also giving them tough and they are receiving dodge from rhadeim, but that list is crazy and drives people bonkers If there is anything you should remember it's to keep your caster from the center of the action where they can easily be unloaded upon. Due to errors that can occur with lightning strike, I much prefer to armor him up and hide him behind my impenetrable wall. Acruarii are actually excellent pieces to place your defender's ward on instead... unless your opponent is hell bent on killing them the moment the game starts x.O; With a pow 12 weaponmaster 8 inch range weapon and a pow 12 weaponmaster 2 inch melee weapon, they can easily wreck whatever they drag in (which gets hit by both weapons in the same turn) Since they lack assault, you can have fun giving them an additional 2 inches from the Tycom and threat a glorious 15 inches that tends to catch your opponent by surprise. Light jacks, medium based infantry, and anything sitting on a small base can easily be broken apart and overwhelmed by them as they casually drag them off to your side of the board On feat turn they can easily surpass even heavy beasts in damage output (the unit). So Arcuarri... A full unit will get to shoot probably once. Once one of them drags, much of the rest of the unit won't get to because their target will either be in melee or the pulled guy will be in melee with them... Or you risk not dragging the target at all. With weapon master, you get 6 attacks at RAT 6. When against heavies, that's probably 2/3 hitting. 4 attacks against ARM 18 (19 is probably average but whatever), dice - 6... That's 13.5 damage. Then one of them gets a melee attack. Assuming it hits that is another 4.5 damage, for 18. This costs 17. They don't have enough attacks to work against 1-wound infantry well. It seems to me their ideal target is other heavy infantry. Hitting and dragging each target... You probably will kill it. Only the best heavy infantry typically can't be dragged (shieldwalled blocking all but the most perfect angle, or they simply have anti push tech). To keep them alive you need both an Agonizer and a Krea, but those aren't free in Masters of War, so that's another 13 points, both of which have pretty minimal offensive output on their own. And those beasts require 4 fury to do their thing, so that's Paingivers for another 5 points. I just don't see it. The thing they do bring is shooting to Masters of War... But so do Minions. Or heck, even Incindiarri, who at least have splash damage and continuous fire. Or I can take those same 17 + 7 + 6 + 5 points and play Ferrox, who are more survivable, longer threat, and whose base cost is similar, but don't need all the support pieces (but can still benefit from them if you want to bring them anyway). I want to like Cataphracts, I really do. I have 5 units of them fully painted on permanent shelf duty because I can't find a good reason to use them in any list. I can come up with reasons for Cetrati thanks to Shield Wall. Incindiarri have some neat unique tech. But Arcuarri are, in my opinion, the worst models in Skorne by a wide margin. Having said all that, they still aren't that bad. The grass is just SO GREEN in this desert
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 15, 2018 14:00:34 GMT
I just realized I've been referring to all Cataphracts as Cetrati. Because I had a big ole bowl of stupid-oes this morning, apparently. My bad (Not in this thread, but others and other conversations)
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Post by dessert hydra on Mar 22, 2018 14:00:36 GMT
So I wanted to try out something different with X1 with a Winds of Death list. Thinking is that the Venator's are reasonably self sufficient, the turtle and Rhindon are my heavy hitters, finally throw in a couple of shield guards.
Skorne - What x1
Theme: Winds of Death 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Tyrant Xerxis - WB: +28 - Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Rhinodon - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Cyclops Brute - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Cyclops Brute - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1)
Siege Animantarax - PC: 17
Venator Dakar - PC: 0 Extoller Soulward - PC: 0 Mortitheurge Willbreaker - PC: 0 Swamp Gobber Chef - PC: 1
Venator Slingers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 Venator Reivers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Venator Reiver Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Venator Reivers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Venator Reiver Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
I played against a Crucible Guard CID Week3. He was running the infantry theme with Gearhart (Torro x 2 , Suppressor) , Assault Troopers, Storm Troopers, Guard Infantry+UA, Alchemist, Trancers x2, Gorman, Hutchuck, Rocketman Ace
My opponent won the starting roll and opted to go first. Scenario was Standoff, we had a cloud center table, I gave my opponent an annoying forest in his zone.
Setup My opponent put Gearhart slighty to my right to skirt the forest , his Troopers continues on my right. To my left he placed the suppressor, both torro's and out on my far left his guard infantry. I deployed refusing my right flank other than my Chef who's job will be to contest the zone behind a handy house. Both Venator units to my left, turtle opposite gearhart with a brute either side Rhinodon keeping X1 company. AD I put my slingers opposite his torro's.
Turn 1 My opponent pops a cloudwall with his alchemist, runs everything up. Gearhart puts up deceleration with the guards infantry out of the bubble, otherwise he's got everything covered. My Turn 1 Willbreaker toughs slingers, X1 gives the turtle defenders ward, slingers get battleplan push and tactical supremacy and for funzies spiny growth. Slingers walk 8 and throw errosions onto a torro but fail to crack ARM22 they then repo forward. Venators advance but keep outside of threat of Guard infantry, Rhindon gets to my objective. Turtle dirdles forward outside of threat of Torro and Suppressor. Krea and brutes support.
Turn 2 Hutchek ambushes in on my chef, wildshotting him to death and running to engage a brute. Gearhart clears off a slinger moves into his zone. Troopers flood the unopposed zone. Combination of torro's , alchemists and guard infantry shoot down slingers down to 4 models. Tough helping soak up some of the damage. Deceleration is up again. My Turn 2 X1 feats, drops tactical and lashes the Rhindon 3 inches forward and camps one. One unit of venators clears path for Turtle onto the objective, torro and supressor. Enrage Rhinodon charges Torro getting both in range. Dice mean only one goes down the other unhurt. Turtle charges in shoots Gearharts butler off the table. It then removes the objective and suppressor but dice mean that Torro is still untouched. Brute clear off Hutchek and the big unit of venators mini feat to clear of 7 guard infantry, repo'ing into the zone. Score 3-1
Turn 3 Alchemist goes for crit upkeep removal but fails. Gearhart feats onto the slingers which he clears then to the turtle. He gets 6 troopers onto it but ARM24 means he's not getting much done. Torro likewise struggles leaving the turtle on 13 boxes. Guard infantry mini feat clear off 4 or so venators. Goreman somehow fails to blind the turtle. Score 3-2 My Turn 3 Big venator unit clears of all guard infantry. Turtle KD's torro but can't kill it. I manage to poke one trooper to death with a spear. Rhindon kills goreman but can't kill the Torro, Dakar finally manages to do the last 3 points on the KD'ed Torro. Brutes clear a trooper each. Score 5-2. We call the game with him being unlikely to contest my zones and unable to kill both the turtle and rhindon.
Thoughts Gearhat was sad after I killed his butler other than decel he didn't greatly contribute. Trancers only managed to kill his own troops. Torro's are nice 13pt heavies. Didn't get a chance to experience the suppressor at work...thankfully. Troopers are legit ARM 22 against range, brutal charge.. The guard mini feat was nice (two shots)... I'm glad I out threatened him. X1 as a funline caster was good. Okay so what did he do that fatman couldn't? Well he's a late game bully his feat turn gives me a good turn to clear heavies.. Battle plans work well too, repo on the slingers is excellent.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Mar 24, 2018 15:08:50 GMT
fun thought, placing X1 in a venator list. Something I wanted to clear up though, X1s feat is melee attacks only. did you roll an extra die on the venator attacks?
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Post by dessert hydra on Mar 24, 2018 16:05:40 GMT
fun thought, placing X1 in a venator list. Something I wanted to clear up though, X1s feat is melee attacks only. did you roll an extra die on the venator attacks? No worries, yep melee only. The ventors with cra are normally okay taking care of business. I used the feat for the beasts and turtle. Possible x1 if he needs to get his hands dirty. Then you looking at arm24 tutle etc.. The best thing is the battle plans and tactician is great too.
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