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Post by gedditoffme on Feb 13, 2018 20:52:29 GMT
Hello,
Heard some comments that Slaughter Fleet is going to be amazing. I skipped the CiD but starting to catch up as cards hit war room, just trying to work out how people see playing it.
From what I see, temptation is to run relatively infantry free for a cryx theme - maybe only 20-40pts infantry (I'm finding it a stretch to get a second free solo in) and maximise on a BG heavy warcaster - possibly Skarre2, Skarr3 or Denny2.
How are the new models? From the CiD rules, the Bloodgorgers look Nucking Futs - can't believe all the rules they've gained from Gerlak and Jussika. Berzerk, Overtake, unyielding, no KD, tough, vengeance, bonus charge range vs living, relentless charge. They make sense in theme as well as engaging models for warjacks to gang off.
Likewise I like the look of black ogrun boarding parties now. They're cheap enough that just having 5 boxes and gang means they should be able to contribute.
Ironmongers look good, if nothing else than a scoring unit in Black Industries. But a few good rules, Ogrun durability & cheapness, repair, dismantle.
However, I'm not really seeing the love for the new mainline units: Smog Belchers and marauders. They look like expensive ranged support units, and I'm not sure they fit in such a list.
How are / were you playing SFR? |
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Post by grotsnik on Feb 13, 2018 22:12:04 GMT
Smogbelchers IMO are crap, and I bet they will never see play in the top tables, except maybe, as someone pointed out, a min unit just to negate charges... still, I dont see them. Thanks cygnar whiners
I dont like ironmongers either, curse is not relyable in a faction that wants to get the alfa, and in the prime jack list (black industries) you are better off taking necrotechs for cheaper repairs and capable of spawning scrap thralls.
Marauders, on the other hand, are awesome, they dont get as much damage in melee BUT have extra survivability as they get +2 DEF most of the times, and some range threat that is not bad either (if you get the full ten in range, 5 2-man CRAs will do more damage than a full unit of crap (crap meaning smogbelchers)
I can see slaughterfleet either going for 40 points in troops to the full 60, I personally will try to field 2 max units of bloodgorgers and 2 max units of marauders, free gerlack, free jussika, free axiara, exactly 60 points.
Ive been playing with some lists trying to get Devil shadow mutineers + rockbottom and some boarding party but I end up always going for MOAR trollkins!
Just my opinion, will have to play obviously and time will tell
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605 
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Post by Deller on Feb 13, 2018 23:38:16 GMT
I dont like ironmongers either, curse is not relyable in a faction that wants to get the alfa, and in the prime jack list (black industries) you are better off taking necrotechs for cheaper repairs and capable of spawning scrap thralls. Necrotechs aren’t cheaper. Iron Mongers were reduced to 6 points for a unit, so they’re the same cost/body/repair as a Necrotech. Iron Mongers are also a lot harder to remove with +1 Def, +2 Arm, Tough, they hit as hard as Banes when against Constructs, and they can score Circular zones in a theme force that doesn’t have a lot of compelling unit options. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 14, 2018 8:18:39 GMT
I dont like ironmongers either, curse is not relyable in a faction that wants to get the alfa, and in the prime jack list (black industries) you are better off taking necrotechs for cheaper repairs and capable of spawning scrap thralls. Necrotechs aren’t cheaper. Iron Mongers were reduced to 6 points for a unit, so they’re the same cost/body/repair as a Necrotech. Iron Mongers are also a lot harder to remove with +1 Def, +2 Arm, Tough, they hit as hard as Banes when against Constructs, and they can score Circular zones in a theme force that doesn’t have a lot of compelling unit options. They are cheaper when you consider that you don't have to take the full 6 points of Necrotechs. I agree that they are worth their cost, but it's a trade-off. I realise you said "a lot", but Cephalyx Overlords are immensely compelling. |
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Feb 14, 2018 10:19:48 GMT
Necrotechs aren’t cheaper. Iron Mongers were reduced to 6 points for a unit, so they’re the same cost/body/repair as a Necrotech. Iron Mongers are also a lot harder to remove with +1 Def, +2 Arm, Tough, they hit as hard as Banes when against Constructs, and they can score Circular zones in a theme force that doesn’t have a lot of compelling unit options. They are cheaper when you consider that you don't have to take the full 6 points of Necrotechs. I agree that they are worth their cost, but it's a trade-off. I realise you said "a lot", but Cephalyx Overlords are immensely compelling. I find they’re very caster/list dependent, same as the Combine. In a Theme that’s all about Warjacks Iron Mongers are the only unit that’s guaranteed to synergize with the list, as well as being the cheapest unit available. Back on topic the biggest reason for a lack of Marauder & Smog Belchers hype is because they haven’t been spoiled. All the other cards for things that are being hyped like Iron Mongers, Bloodgorgers, & Skarre3 have dropped into Warroom or PP’s card database, but we haven’t seen the final take on Belchers or Marauders. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 14, 2018 11:11:02 GMT
I think Skarre 3 will be great in Slaughter Fleet, Sucker from the Blood Priestess helps her massive boat not just get shot, she has flight so will not get boxed in by hordes of infantry, Decel is great for infantry that also have Tough, Vengeance and no sleeping on the job. she also has a good unit damage buff, and Dash plus the 2" of extra deployment mean they can move up super fast
edit, plus she can bring dudes back each turn |
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Post by tiberius on Feb 14, 2018 11:27:56 GMT
The only new unit I really didn't care for was the sharde pirates. A spray 6 with 5 RAT and no gun fighter or assault. Sure they have gang and tough but you take them for their sprays or blood gorgers are just superior in every way. And without the ability to shoot the sprays while engaged, because I am using them as a screening unit, they just fall lack luster. Maybe if they had Clear! as an ability like the trollkin scattergunners, it would be more attractive.
I really am looking forward to the seers and the iron mongers. I think those will both be really fun units.
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Post by minmaximus on Feb 14, 2018 11:51:33 GMT
The only new unit I really didn't care for was the sharde pirates. A spray 6 with 5 RAT and no gun fighter or assault. Sure they have gang and tough but you take them for their sprays or blood gorgers are just superior in every way. And without the ability to shoot the sprays while engaged, because I am using them as a screening unit, they just fall lack luster. Maybe if they had Clear! as an ability like the trollkin scattergunners, it would be more attractive. I really am looking forward to the seers and the iron mongers. I think those will both be really fun units. I thought they picked up Assault from their CA? Either way I'm pretty excited for the Slaughter Fleet, it looks like a kind of Cryx thats wildly different from existing Cryx. Though I think Gang Fighter Stalkers under Skarre1 will give me nightmares for a couple of days. |
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Post by tiberius on Feb 14, 2018 11:56:06 GMT
You are correct minmaximus, I completely forgot about their attachment. He fixes all the problems I had with that unit by giving them assault, feign death and a no quarter mini-feat.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 14, 2018 12:30:16 GMT
I think Skarre 3 will be great in Slaughter Fleet, Sucker from the Blood Priestess helps her massive boat not just get shot I don't think it's as useful as you might think. That boat will be ARM 21 with a shit ton of boxes anyway, but Sucker! is mandatory, so unlike with Terminus, it's pretty easy to overload your cannon fodder and when you run out of those, you have no choose but to kill the Blood Priestess (who has to be within 3) That's of course the balancing factor of this ability, so it's fine, but you shouldn't overestimate it either. |
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Feb 16, 2018 4:49:20 GMT
I think Skarre 3 will be great in Slaughter Fleet, Sucker from the Blood Priestess helps her massive boat not just get shot, she has flight so will not get boxed in by hordes of infantry, Decel is great for infantry that also have Tough, Vengeance and no sleeping on the job. she also has a good unit damage buff, and Dash plus the 2" of extra deployment mean they can move up super fast
edit, plus she can bring dudes back each turn I’m a bit torn with her in Slaughter Fleet honestly. She brings no terrain fixing herself and the only Pathfinder models in the theme are Jusika’s unit and the Sharde Pirates on No Quarter turn, & Skarre3 doesn’t help the Sharde’s accuracy at all with the Sprays so I really don’t like them with her since you’re stuck at Rat 5. Slaughter Fleet has a ton of cloud generation, but it doesn’t help Skarre since she’s on a huge base. The Gang Fighter benefit pushes you towards Melee jacks, but Skarre’s kit wants ranged jacks. Sucker! is actually a pretty brutal double edged sword since Skarre3 is only Defense 12 and everything in Slaughter Fleet is Defense 12-14 making it always more effective for your opponent to shoot your caster that can’t hide behind clouds, cover, & forests because it’s actually easier to kill the infantry by shooting Skarre and forcing her to Sucker! than it is to just shoot the units around her in the first place. Unlike Sac Pawn Casters like Vlad1 in WGK or Terminus who are Def 15/14 pawning off to Def 12 models where it’s more efficient to just shoot the models those casters would pawn to, Skarre is going to be a massive liability to her defense 13 Ogrun & Sharde and 14 Marauders (Ashen veil) & Dirge Seers that want to stand near her. In addition Skarre can’t choose to just eat pow 10s that don’t Threaten her like Old Witch2 can. She must pawn them off to her squisher troops that are threatened by them. At least with existing Sucker! Casters like Malakov2 and everyone else in Cryx, Deneghra3 included, it’s harder to hit the caster than the troops around them, forcing your opponent to get LoS on the troops, which you can hide behind clouds, cover, or forests, or need to hit the higher Defense caster. Honestly I think Sucker! is a massive trap on Skarre3, and you should stick with Shield Guards & other tech to keep her safe. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 16, 2018 7:19:59 GMT
I think Skarre 3 will be great in Slaughter Fleet, Sucker from the Blood Priestess helps her massive boat not just get shot, she has flight so will not get boxed in by hordes of infantry, Decel is great for infantry that also have Tough, Vengeance and no sleeping on the job. she also has a good unit damage buff, and Dash plus the 2" of extra deployment mean they can move up super fast
edit, plus she can bring dudes back each turn I’m a bit torn with her in Slaughter Fleet honestly. She brings no terrain fixing herself and the only Pathfinder models in the theme are Jusika’s unit and the Sharde Pirates on No Quarter turn, & Skarre3 doesn’t help the Sharde’s accuracy at all with the Sprays so I really don’t like them with her since you’re stuck at Rat 5. Slaughter Fleet has a ton of cloud generation, but it doesn’t help Skarre since she’s on a huge base. The Gang Fighter benefit pushes you towards Melee jacks, but Skarre’s kit wants ranged jacks. Sucker! is actually a pretty brutal double edged sword since Skarre3 is only Defense 12 and everything in Slaughter Fleet is Defense 12-14 making it always more effective for your opponent to shoot your caster that can’t hide behind clouds, cover, & forests because it’s actually easier to kill the infantry by shooting Skarre and forcing her to Sucker! than it is to just shoot the units around her in the first place. Unlike Sac Pawn Casters like Vlad1 in WGK or Terminus who are Def 15/14 pawning off to Def 12 models where it’s more efficient to just shoot the models those casters would pawn to, Skarre is going to be a massive liability to her defense 13 Ogrun & Sharde and 14 Marauders (Ashen veil) & Dirge Seers that want to stand near her. In addition Skarre can’t choose to just eat pow 10s that don’t Threaten her like Old Witch2 can. She must pawn them off to her squisher troops that are threatened by them. At least with existing Sucker! Casters like Malakov2 and everyone else in Cryx, Deneghra3 included, it’s harder to hit the caster than the troops around them, forcing your opponent to get LoS on the troops, which you can hide behind clouds, cover, or forests, or need to hit the higher Defense caster. Honestly I think Sucker! is a massive trap on Skarre3, and you should stick with Shield Guards & other tech to keep her safe. Good points, but I think you have to pick and choose which aspects of Skarres kit you will use in a list. I don't think she wants sharde pirates at all, like you said she has no accuracy fixer, and they can shoot her to autohit any sharde pirates nearby. Instead take bloodgorgers and maybe boarding crew, with vet leader for one and gang for the other they fix their own accuracy, and at arm 16 tough, and arm 15 with 5 boxes they get more value out of decel and are less likely to die to pow 10s. With regards to guided fire you probably just ignore it, unless you are building a black industries list around it, it's better to take melee beaters in slaughter fleet |
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Feb 16, 2018 7:33:27 GMT
The beauty of the priestess though is you only get sucker if she's within 3" of the caster.
This means you can judge for yourself if the game-state favours having sucker! or not, and if it's a liability you simply move the priestess out of 3" from your caster.
-und_ed
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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 16, 2018 7:52:51 GMT
It's worth noting that while you can't choose to Sucker! individual shots or not, you can choose to keep the Priestess outside of 3" of your caster so you she doesn't get Sucker!
It's not perfect, but it's something.
I think having it be Sucker! and not Sacrificial Pawn is a great balancing tool actually. Many people in the CID were outraged at the apparent power of it, but it's actually a real choice for the Cryx player and if you bring enough shooting you can force the death of the Priestess.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Feb 16, 2018 14:40:01 GMT
I'm loving the lists with her and bloodgorgers. They have gotten easier to deliver (Jussika and Decel), hit harder with Skarre3's dragon something spell, and provide very difficult to remove triggers for gang fighter.
I'm personally finding the idea of ranged jacks to be a bit of a trap with her, but I'm curious about the Overlords. What about them seems to be great in this theme?
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