SeBM
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by SeBM on Feb 23, 2018 20:02:45 GMT
I think you need to bring some armor cracking to the party to complete your Kaelyssa list. Vyros2 in Forges and Elara2 in Defenders look like prime candidates here. I'm pairing a very similar Kaelyssa list with Elara2 and I'm mostly hoping to dodge Nemo3.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 23, 2018 23:13:39 GMT
That looks like a really solid list. How often are you able to get games in? if it is going to be fairly regular then I would suggest not worrying about a second list for a while. Play this list into everything, see where the holes are and then find something that works into those. If you don't have so many gaming opportunities or have a steamroller coming up then I'd look at something more battlegroup heavy, a Rahn or Vyros2 in forges for example Yah, I'd been spitballing this idea for a bit, and it was good to finally give it some table time. Also, I'd finally decided to go 'screw Shield Wall' and used the Halberdiers for their full array of functions (ability to jam and screen my army on the lead-in as well as deliver a stonking unsupported charge). Granted, they didn't charge (fanned out to prevent them all from getting chewed up by a bunch of Skin & Moans) as smacking out every Shield Guard in range on turn 2 means Kae's Energy Siphon bolt and a couple Hydra shots to the face kills folks nicely at the top of 3. All told, I think I played a good game, he played Heretic and got given a bit of a bad choice going into his turn 2 (risk assassination of his caster by being in range to trigger Pandemonium - I held back both CA's of the Halb units - or face twenty POW 14's, plus the six how POW shots and lose up to two S&M's and a Cage Rager). That said, I don't get that much opportunity to play (once a week tops, usually once every 2+ weeks). In so saying, I am drawn to a heavies heavy Rahn Forges list (double Chimera, triple Manticore and Discordia). Hmm lets see, 2x jack, 2x unit, 2x AFG, 2x solos, free character solos... yup... that's a ret theme At the moment, I find myself trying actively to be less down about things, for all the CID neglect. Therefore, my justification for the list was that it is, by and large, marvellously symmetrical. I crutch on Kae, and unashamedly. Even so, have you seen some of the mad lists folks are taking to OTC?! Michael Ireland has an Arcanist free Elara2 list with two lights and a heavy! There are more incidences of Ryssovass Defenders than I thought possible, too... OK, I still reckon they suck in the current environment and it is a team tournament, but it's still a source of amazement for me. Anyway, while the basic flaw of the theme structure is typical to Ret, I don't think it is unique to us, even if other factions don't have it so bad, perhaps... but hey, at least, these days, I'm willing to play around it and actually give my gaming group the middle finger and say: come on, walk over here so I can assassinate you...
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 24, 2018 1:48:10 GMT
That looks like a really solid list. How often are you able to get games in? if it is going to be fairly regular then I would suggest not worrying about a second list for a while. Play this list into everything, see where the holes are and then find something that works into those. If you don't have so many gaming opportunities or have a steamroller coming up then I'd look at something more battlegroup heavy, a Rahn or Vyros2 in forges for example Yah, I'd been spitballing this idea for a bit, and it was good to finally give it some table time. Also, I'd finally decided to go 'screw Shield Wall' and used the Halberdiers for their full array of functions (ability to jam and screen my army on the lead-in as well as deliver a stonking unsupported charge). Granted, they didn't charge (fanned out to prevent them all from getting chewed up by a bunch of Skin & Moans) as smacking out every Shield Guard in range on turn 2 means Kae's Energy Siphon bolt and a couple Hydra shots to the face kills folks nicely at the top of 3. All told, I think I played a good game, he played Heretic and got given a bit of a bad choice going into his turn 2 (risk assassination of his caster by being in range to trigger Pandemonium - I held back both CA's of the Halb units - or face twenty POW 14's, plus the six how POW shots and lose up to two S&M's and a Cage Rager). That said, I don't get that much opportunity to play (once a week tops, usually once every 2+ weeks). In so saying, I am drawn to a heavies heavy Rahn Forges list (double Chimera, triple Manticore and Discordia). Hmm lets see, 2x jack, 2x unit, 2x AFG, 2x solos, free character solos... yup... that's a ret theme At the moment, I find myself trying actively to be less down about things, for all the CID neglect. Therefore, my justification for the list was that it is, by and large, marvellously symmetrical. I crutch on Kae, and unashamedly. Even so, have you seen some of the mad lists folks are taking to OTC?! Michael Ireland has an Arcanist free Elara2 list with two lights and a heavy! There are more incidences of Ryssovass Defenders than I thought possible, too... OK, I still reckon they suck in the current environment and it is a team tournament, but it's still a source of amazement for me. Anyway, while the basic flaw of the theme structure is typical to Ret, I don't think it is unique to us, even if other factions don't have it so bad, perhaps... but hey, at least, these days, I'm willing to play around it and actually give my gaming group the middle finger and say: come on, walk over here so I can assassinate you... Yea, I'm not trying to say symmetry is bad... it's just getting really boring. I'm going to have my Vyros1 list soon and it doesn't have any 2x stuff... but it also only has like 1 free solo
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 24, 2018 12:09:52 GMT
Yea, I'm not trying to say symmetry is bad... it's just getting really boring. I'm going to have my Vyros1 list soon and it doesn't have any 2x stuff... but it also only has like 1 free solo Depends on how it plays, I suppose... my pre-theme Vyros1 list was the epitome of boring (Sents, double Griffon, double Sphinx)... Mobility, tramp up, beat face, win if I killed enough, lose if I didn't. The Kae list has enough variety from her spell list in what it can do for the army, I find it quite fun. In terms of list building, though, I'll admit that "good" lists are tending towards the boring... for all I love Adam, his new modified Vyre light/Halb spam Elara2 list is darned good (believe it's double Harpy, double Siren, triple Halbs plus solos)... but good grief it makes me cry. And my Legion lists are doing my head in, too (part of it is a pointed refusal to run double Sentinels, and since I dislike Destors/don't know how to best use them, it's Sents & Vics... and whether or not to marshal a jack can sometimes be a pain, because either the marshal'd myrmidon wrecks face, or the marshal gets killed bottom of 2, no middle ground). And the one free solo is also a pain when V1/2 & Helynna to an extent all want/function well with large battlegroups, but we all know about our "jack" theme. Hence why I'm, provisionally, concentrating on Defenders lists ('cos, you know, there's actually some variety there, that I, personally, can play well with), and fun casters I haven't really played properly in a while (read: Rahn). What is your V1 list?
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 24, 2018 12:51:36 GMT
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Vyros1
Theme: Shadows of the Retribution 1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Dawnlord Vyros - WJ: +28 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4 - Imperatus - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Siren - PC: 8
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber - PC: 0 - Harpy - PC: 9
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters - Cylena & 9 Grunts: 19 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1 Spears of Scyrah - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 - Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander - PC: 6 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1
THEME: Shadows of the Retribution ---
GENERATED : 02/24/2018 07:50:53 BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 24, 2018 16:01:06 GMT
What's your thinking behind Harpy on Elara? Bird's Eye vs more Focus/independence/SoD?
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 24, 2018 16:14:58 GMT
What's your thinking behind Harpy on Elara? Bird's Eye vs more Focus/independence/SoD? Basically the thought behind the list is to run Vyros heavily on a flank that gives him an advantage with birds eye. At deployment I'd deploy him and his BG to a side where they can position after a turn1 mobility run behind a forest. Deployed a little more central but near Vyros would be the Nyss. On the opposite side of the table on the other flank I'd have the spears/elara package deployed. The thought on the harpy with elara is basically a package that she can score a flag with some shield guards if needed while the harpy gets loaded up and does a scoot and shoot to push people around and contest/score as needed on my weak flank. See attached 2 minute paint picture for an idea of what im talking about. edit: in the picture i think Vyros and nyss are in their turn1 positioning but i put elara and spears more in a turn 2/3 position to show you where i think they can contribute as the enemy commits the majority of their forces to engage me on the other side of the table. With the thunderbolts and boosted damage then SoD the harpy can be an annoying little piece that has some decent scoring potential, spears and eiryss are able to screen, shield guard, threaten and clean up any infantry sent in on the harpy... if they send in a jack/beast on the harpy they're really over extending a piece they're gonna need on the other side of the table to deal with imperatus, banshee, siren. Attachments:
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Mar 14, 2018 15:26:25 GMT
Here's the short-list of things I'm worried about when building a list pair: snip 3. Grymkin (or maybe just Incorporeal). Mostly the Dreamer, as I think the other casters all face some problems into Ret, but they present a unique problem that can require specific answers. snip Why would incorporeal be an issue? We have magical weapons all over the place. iIt's one issue I've never found to be an issue. Just curious.
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Post by CaptCommy on Mar 21, 2018 19:25:11 GMT
Here's the short-list of things I'm worried about when building a list pair: snip 3. Grymkin (or maybe just Incorporeal). Mostly the Dreamer, as I think the other casters all face some problems into Ret, but they present a unique problem that can require specific answers. snip Why would incorporeal be an issue? We have magical weapons all over the place. iIt's one issue I've never found to be an issue. Just curious. At the time, I was thinking in a more general sense instead of a Ret specific position. You're correct in that we tend to have a good smattering of magic weapons that will work out just fine in 90% of situations. The only thing that can pose somewhat of a problem is a Wraith Engine, as trying to shoot it down with our magic jack guns is not usually very efficient. So I'd still think about what I'd do to deal with a WE, but otherwise, yeah, I haven't had much incorp problems.
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Post by Dirhavel on Mar 22, 2018 5:31:47 GMT
Even a Wraith Engine can be killed relatively easily with the right tools. It is very list-specific, but we do have a number of jacks with magical melee weapons (Imperatus, Banshee, Phoenix, Siren, etc.), AFG destructor shots hurt it a lot, and so does a fane knight charge for exemple.
I'm not saying it's easy, but we have a much easier time dealing with wraith engines than most other factions do. With Skarre1's feat it gets a bit more problematic, but that's another problem entirely...
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Post by CaptCommy on Mar 22, 2018 16:23:22 GMT
Even a Wraith Engine can be killed relatively easily with the right tools. It is very list-specific, but we do have a number of jacks with magical melee weapons (Imperatus, Banshee, Phoenix, Siren, etc.), AFG destructor shots hurt it a lot, and so does a fane knight charge for exemple. I'm not saying it's easy, but we have a much easier time dealing with wraith engines than most other factions do. With Skarre1's feat it gets a bit more problematic, but that's another problem entirely... I feel like my level of concern may be a bit overblown at this point, because yeah, it's definitely pretty easy in Ret to have a WE solution somewhere in your pair (those random magical melee weapons are so nice). My point was that to double check your list pair to make sure you've got something in there that can deal with a WE, because it's such a binary thing (magic weapons or not) and when you don't have it, easily winnable games can spiral pretty badly. It's just another item on the checklist I run down when building a pair, not something that keeps me up at night
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Mar 22, 2018 18:04:17 GMT
Now listen here, I got this derail going. We're not going to stop beating this horse until I know FOR SURE that it is dead. So you get back in there and you explain AGAIN why you feel you need to worry about magical weapons... and Wraith Engines *obvious sarcasm is obvious........ but just in case*
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