bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Feb 9, 2018 13:35:11 GMT
How is everyone feeling about the cheaper berserker chasis jacks? I was concerned at first, then I played into a harkevitch list with bradigus and ate all the heavies even under feat turn 2 guardians and megalith under synergy (and the rest of my lights) were able to remove 5 of the 10 jacks from the table. They haven’t been an issue when testing MoW because they require the same tools to deal with... so you either have it or you don’t. Would like to see it tested with something like Winterguard or LoS so you combine high volume models with the cheap box spam. First take though is that it’s fine.
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Post by macdaddy on Feb 9, 2018 13:38:00 GMT
How is everyone feeling about the cheaper berserker chasis jacks? I was concerned at first, then I played into a harkevitch list with bradigus and ate all the heavies even under feat turn 2 guardians and megalith under synergy (and the rest of my lights) were able to remove 5 of the 10 jacks from the table. They haven’t been an issue when testing MoW because they require the same tools to deal with... so you either have it or you don’t. Would like to see it tested with something like Winterguard or LoS so you combine high volume models with the cheap box spam. First take though is that it’s fine. That's fair, I know part of what makes the Vlad 1 rockets list problematic was him taking 3-4 marauders with signs and portents on top of the mass amounts of rockets. Ill see if I can get another game in with that. Arm 18 is pretty wimpy though, its really only the boxes that still bother me.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 9, 2018 14:45:05 GMT
Yeah yeah, Khador isn't allowed to have nice things as usual. AK is not a meat mountain list. Due to support bloat you're looking at 2 units of shockies tops backed up by a unit of arm 16 dudes. Do you know how many shockies Nemo3 deletes on feat turn? About unit and a half. Do you know how many shockies 1 buffed 4 fury beast kills? All that he can engage, because shield wall is piss easy to disable. How many shockies a unit of charging weaponmasters or chain weapon dudes kills? All of them. Meat mountain lists are dead. Box nerfs, tough nerfs, take down/grievous proliferation and obligatory 30pt of jacks killed them. The only good that come out of mows is that they can deliver your infantry damage buffs unlike IFP who autodie to even more things. As for Berserker it's a 8 point jack that will never ever trade up because it will blow up if it tries. Unlike some certain Synergy 7pt lights. Berserker fate is forever to be a throw away piece while his (now 13pt) buddies do all the work. Well 1 buffed fury 4 beast being sent in to 5 8 box armor 23( with shield wall and iron zeal) shock troopers with retaliatory strike from the new 7pt guy is gonna have trouble killing all of them. Let's assume a warpwolf stalker, warping strength AND getting primal. Let's even give him a free charge... ok, he charges in and hits the first of 5 guys at dice -3 on the charge so on avg like 6-7 dmg boxes... that one hits him back at -3 with his retaliatory strike and is still alive. so then hes gotta buy an attack, does 3 more dmg and that guy dies. He buys attacks on the 2nd guy and maybe kills him doing 3 dmg on avg and then he's on full fur andd he's killed 1, maybe 2 MOW and has taken 2 strikes from them in return. As for charging weaponmasters... why didn't you put the covering fire from your suppressor right in front of your shocktroopers to stop that from happening? OR sorcha3's clouds, OR old witch1's cloud, OR old witch 1's feat, OR conquests aoes... khador has plenty of ways to deliver these things.
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Post by jisidro on Feb 9, 2018 15:00:11 GMT
Yeah yeah, Khador isn't allowed to have nice things as usual. AK is not a meat mountain list. Due to support bloat you're looking at 2 units of shockies tops backed up by a unit of arm 16 dudes. | Khador Army - 65 / 75 points [Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army must contain at least 98 total points. !!! Your army contains CID entries.
(Kozlov 1) Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad [+28] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [15] |
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[/font]][/b] [/ul]Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16][/b] [/ul]Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16][/b] [/ul][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table] Still have 38pts to play with... almost 40% of the list. Do you know how many shockies Nemo3 deletes on feat turn? About unit and a half. Do you know how many shockies 1 buffed 4 fury beast kills? All that he can engage, because shield wall is piss easy to disable. How many shockies a unit of charging weaponmasters or chain weapon dudes kills? All of them. Nemo3: ARM 21 vs POW 12 boosted is 1.5 dmg/hit. This is a buffed WM e-leap vs unbuffed Shocktroopers. If you are going into a very damaging multiple attack list you better have something up your sleeve. Perhaps an ARM buff/feat? Beast: Sounds about right since a buffed beast is representing more than 20pts. Keep in mind the beast needs to charge at least 11" or it likely to get charged and murdered. WMs: Let's go with POW 13 WMs... It's ARM 21 vs POW13 WM hot for about 4 boxes each attack. Don't get charged by 10 of them MOW don't want to face dedicated high-threat beast lists or high-threat WMS without a few tricks of their own... Perhaps use the BEs or Supression tankers with your fremaining points to shore up what you consider to be bad match-ups?
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Feb 9, 2018 17:06:46 GMT
Yeah yeah, Khador isn't allowed to have nice things as usual. AK is not a meat mountain list. Due to support bloat you're looking at 2 units of shockies tops backed up by a unit of arm 16 dudes. | Khador Army - 65 / 75 points [Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army must contain at least 98 total points. !!! Your army contains CID entries.
(Kozlov 1) Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad [+28] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [15] |
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[/font]][/b] [/ul]Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16][/b] [/ul]Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16][/b] [/ul][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table] Still have 38pts to play with... almost 40% of the list.[/quote]Add Arconovich and you have a pretty potent and fast list there.
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Post by haraldtorvatn on Feb 9, 2018 22:26:32 GMT
Yeah yeah, Khador isn't allowed to have nice things as usual. AK is not a meat mountain list. Due to support bloat you're looking at 2 units of shockies tops backed up by a unit of arm 16 dudes. Do you know how many shockies Nemo3 deletes on feat turn? About unit and a half. Do you know how many shockies 1 buffed 4 fury beast kills? All that he can engage, because shield wall is piss easy to disable. How many shockies a unit of charging weaponmasters or chain weapon dudes kills? All of them. Meat mountain lists are dead. Box nerfs, tough nerfs, take down/grievous proliferation and obligatory 30pt of jacks killed them. The only good that come out of mows is that they can deliver your infantry damage buffs unlike IFP who autodie to even more things. As for Berserker it's a 8 point jack that will never ever trade up because it will blow up if it tries. Unlike some certain Synergy 7pt lights. Berserker fate is forever to be a throw away piece while his (now 13pt) buddies do all the work. And there's the "Nothing my faction is getting can be broken unless it's as good as the cherry-picked best stuff in the game." defence. We should have bingo cards for these threads. The best stuff in Khador should be as good as the best stuff in other factions.
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Post by mcdermott on Feb 9, 2018 22:33:07 GMT
And there's the "Nothing my faction is getting can be broken unless it's as good as the cherry-picked best stuff in the game." defence. We should have bingo cards for these threads. The best stuff in Khador should be as good as the best stuff in other factions. This is actually pretty fair. The problem occurs when the best stuff in other factions is old Haley2 level ahead of the curve to the point that its an auto choice.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 9, 2018 23:03:01 GMT
Derp Turtles for everyone! It's the only way to be balanced!
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Feb 9, 2018 23:04:00 GMT
Its also to do much with faction perception. Some factions expect being overpowered so will complain at anything sub demonic power par. Other factions are livid for the tiniest morsel.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Feb 10, 2018 1:02:24 GMT
And there's the "Nothing my faction is getting can be broken unless it's as good as the cherry-picked best stuff in the game." defence. We should have bingo cards for these threads. The best stuff in Khador should be as good as the best stuff in other factions. Definitely not. The best stuff in a number of factions should be nerfed until it's appropriate to the power curve of the rest of the game. Nemo3 is one such outlier. Power Creep is a thing, and it's bad. Take it from an ex-Warhammer player.
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Post by josephkerr on Feb 10, 2018 1:06:38 GMT
Lots of complaining about the juggernaut/marauder point increses, but they seem fair. Currently a lot of khador lists contain 40-50 points of Js and Ms in some combination because they are the most point efficient beat sticks in the faction. If PP wantst o sell the rest of the Khador line, they either make all Khador jacks as point efficient as Juggernauts OR change the point efficiency of juggernauts, either nerfing them rules wise or increasing their cost. With the combined point increases plus point decreases in other parts of the Khador stable, I think CID is producing the most broadly useful Khador jackline probably ever.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Feb 10, 2018 1:50:08 GMT
Content removed for quoting a removed post. - Cryptix
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Feb 10, 2018 5:43:44 GMT
Do we really need the Mods to come in and stop this?
Don't make it a necessity.
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Post by Cryptix on Feb 10, 2018 6:54:34 GMT
Do we really need the Mods to come in and stop this? Don't make it a necessity. Too late, I'm shutting this down for a little bit while I remove some posts.
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Post by Cryptix on Feb 10, 2018 7:01:15 GMT
Thread unlocked. I will be watching.
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