isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 3, 2018 1:22:04 GMT
I am starting a running list of proposed changes for Ret models for when we get our first CID. Bellow is a list of ideas me and some other retribution players have started. Please feel free to provide feedback on my suggestions or to propose other changes I have not. I'll try to update this list as we go.
Casters Garryth, Blade of Retribution Gains ability "Groundwork" Lord Ghyrrshyld, the Forgiven -Gains ability "Soul Taker: Reclaim" -Change Revive to Raise the Dead ( just changes cost from 3 to 2) -Feat changes to "FF gain+2 defense, cold immune. If an enemy model, not immune to cold, destroys a friendly faction model in g4 control range with a melee attack at the end of its activation it becomes stationary." Magister Helynna -Let RoW work on her -HoD becomes BG S+P, change cost 2--> 3 change to duration: turn
Ravyn, Eternal Light
- Spell list rework -Keep Snipe/Locomotion -Add Dash/Wind Wall/ Arcane Bolt -Feat becomes "FF models attack rolls are boosted and jacks gain dual attack"
Thyron, Sword of Truth -Gains Resourcefull -Gains flashing Blade/Loses Ground Zero -Field marshall changes to rapid strike
Jacks All Jacks currently RAT 5 become RAT 6
Shyeel jacks that are DEF12 become DEF13
Daemon -Gains Imprint: Entropic Force
Moros' blades gain Magical
AFG Some ability where it can sac movement to push stuff away. E.G "Force Pulse:This model sacrifices movement. Enemy models in the front arc within 2" of this model are pushed back 3"
This would give more counter play to enemies running warrior models to engage the AFG but removes its ability to move or aim in the process.
Units Destors - Open for ideas, they need a lot of changes
Stormfall Archers - become RAT, Gain houseguard tag ( to be targeted by thane)
Aiyana and Holt- at minimum Aiyana becomes partisan ( if making the unit partisan makes them too strong for upkeeps/feats)
Ellowuyr Swordsmen- Become PS 13 ( further diferntiate them from other units with similar roles)
Solos Priest of Nyssor - Can be attached to Nyss units ( allows him to be attached to Nyss hunters in other themes)
Elara1 gains pathfinder and prowl
Themes Shadows- UA's added as models that can be taken for free. Elara1 ( and her jack) gain ambush. Moros can be taken in theme
Dawnguard- add Impertaus OR Hemera can be taken in theme
Forges- Can take Discordia in theme
Defenders- advanced move on 2 houseguard units
For all themes: One Solo OR unit NOT listed as allowed in theme may be taken( this model/unit does not count towards free points and cannot be taken as a free model)
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 3, 2018 14:17:22 GMT
I am starting a running list of proposed changes for Ret models for when we get our first CID. Bellow is a list of ideas me and some other retribution players have started. Please feel free to provide feedback on my suggestions or to propose other changes I have not. I'll try to update this list as we go. I have many thoughts here as things go... but discussion regrettably usually descends into a maelstrom of arguing over what we need vs want (& some players who, rightly or wrongly, think Ret is perfectly viable as we are (dumb opinion ahead - yes, I believe Ret is viable... just not perfectly viable)). That said... G4 - yeah, he needs a feat that isn't a dumbass version of Borka2's... I'd like to work Winter Storm into his feat somehow... Ravyn - she needs a substantial re-work not sure how, though... RAT 6 is fine, Shyeel lights to become DEF13 is fine, but not the heavies, that would become a bit excessive. Standard combined basic DEF/ARM stats on heavy jacks throughout the game is 30 or less, outside of character jacks, so the House Vyre jacks are already plenty good on 12/19. 13/18 on non-character Shyeel jacks is pushing it, somewhat. Daemon with Entropic Force is a bit useless considering how niche that ability is, along with how crappy its range is, that is, it can pop that ability once, then die. RNG 12 on its gun and it'll be fine. Other than a bump to RAT 6 on our non-character jacks (& a bump to RAT 7 for Hypnos, Discordia, Moros and Hemera, plus said change to Daemon), I think our armoury of Myrmidons is largely fine... With enough people whining about double AFG lists (shocking, I know...), the cricket is fine as it is. One of our stronger pieces, certainly. We always knew enemies would do shit to jam it, so we play around that or make sure we play in such a way to prevent it. Destors - easiest way is lose the Lance rule and give them Unyielding basic. Replacing Gunfighter with Point Blank (range?) might be interesting... SFA - they are part of their own house and not Houseguard, so I don't really like this one, though RAT 6 is welcome (was spitballing with... someone, can't remember who, for there to be a generic buff solo who can as a *Action, give a choice of buffs to a nearby unit, worded carefully so that there's no beneficial interplay with Dawnguard e.g. re-rolls for ranged attack rolls etc.) A&H - I... really don't know here... :/ Fluff-wise, she hates Ret, so I think we should have a Magical Ability 7 Mage Hunter spellcaster solo who has Kiss of Lyliss instead Swordsmen - Apparition suddenly came to mind, but that's a bit silly... PS13 is fine, but hardly function defining (Thy-bros with Thyron can be made better if his feat lasted a round), Dodge, maybe? Ryssovass Defenders - I don't know... I quite like these guys, but I do think they need something to make them more their own unit and not cut-price Sentinels I think both of them are fine, but I'd like to see Elara1 available in more themes in general. Destor Thane - ditch tactician, make it Elite Cadre at the very least, but preferably something like Elite Cadre: Brutal Charge Most of that's OK... but an ambushing jack might be a bit much... I'm all for MHI getting ambush and/or us getting an MHI CA. Defenders to have Advanced Move on all units without a ranged attack. *shrug* As for that last one... my idea for that was identical, except the bit in parentheses... which, now I think on it, is a pretty good moderator.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 4, 2018 17:43:03 GMT
One other thing... would it be unreasonable to have a MAT 7 non-character chassis? Ironclad/Slayer/Guardian(& Dervish)/Juggernaut chassis, and FeralWW, BBTitan, Neraph/NephSoldier, S&M...?
Or stay in the MAT6 tops club with Trolls?! =P
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Post by dontyouknow on Feb 4, 2018 20:31:22 GMT
These changes would make my heart happy. I mean, except for the AFG, that's already pretty boss.
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Post by elladan52 on Feb 5, 2018 5:17:47 GMT
I am 99% sure that infiltrators will be getting a CA that gives them AD and Ambush, if they ever get it. I think this because to give it to the vanilla unit would mean you could ambush with Eiryss3, which is pretty absurd.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Feb 5, 2018 11:45:53 GMT
Had a conversation with some players over the weekend and Ret themes came up. We all came to a consensus that Ret needs an irregulars type of list. Our faction feels strongest when all houses/models can be included in one list.
Isn't that what Ret was supposed to be anyways? A group of xenophobic elves splintering off the norm and houses slowly joining together for the greater elf good? Having a segregated set of themes seem's counter-intuitive to the original faction concept.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 5, 2018 14:39:35 GMT
Had a conversation with some players over the weekend and Ret themes came up. We all came to a consensus that Ret needs an irregulars type of list. Our faction feels strongest when all houses/models can be included in one list. Isn't that what Ret was supposed to be anyways? A group of xenophobic elves splintering off the norm and houses slowly joining together for the greater elf good? Having a segregated set of themes seem's counter-intuitive to the original faction concept. OK, I'ma be a dick here... PP, you said it yourselves! =P The heart of the Retribution of Scyrah is its diversity—a unique blend of various Iosan houses, each boasting its own martial tradition. Tenacious and stealthy mage hunters slink forward to spring ambushes on unsuspecting foes, battle mages send their enemies reeling with blasts of arcane force, and gleaming ranks of disciplined Dawnguard and Houseguard march in ordered precision to cut down with bullet and blade all who oppose them. While many of the original core factions slowly developed their own centralized themes over time, the Retribution was specifically conceived as a union between these three very different martial traditions. PP-Insider, 5th Sept '16 I think an Irregulars style of list might be a bit bland as it would need a lot of toning down (Ret units and jacks are inherently better than their Merc counterparts). A cross between a catch all and a straight limiter of faction tag counts might be a better way of doing it, but it does seem very fiddly. I'm all for Isotope's thought for out of theme stuff permitted, but is non-contributory to free shit... (or my variant, where it generally is contributory... can be argued either way).
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jsavard
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 7
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Post by jsavard on Feb 5, 2018 15:12:48 GMT
I think it's more likely we see a point reduction than a change to our jacks stats tbh. -1 accros our heavies, -2 for the deamon and the gorgon. Maybe change combustion on the pheonix so he can charge with it (then, he would be worth 17 points).
Our colossals could use rat 6 though.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 5, 2018 15:13:18 GMT
Maybe they could open defenders up to allow everything but only units count towards free points, then it's not like irregulars where units and jacks count and no advanced move on heavies...
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Feb 5, 2018 15:50:30 GMT
RAT5 is fine. We have unlimited focus and best jack marshalls in the game.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 5, 2018 15:56:21 GMT
I think it's more likely we see a point reduction than a change to our jacks stats tbh. -1 accros our heavies, -2 for the deamon and the gorgon. Maybe change combustion on the pheonix so he can charge with it (then, he would be worth 17 points). Our colossals could use rat 6 though. The new lights got RAT6, that's why I'd assume they're already considering this change.
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Post by psycomonky on Feb 8, 2018 22:03:38 GMT
I honestly dont think your suggested changes go nearly far enough.
Most jacks need a point or two reduction. They are overpriced for their stats and the weakness of rat5.
To pick on a couple that I have been throwing around in my head Lord Ghyrrshyld - allow collection of friendly souls - new feat - move the old feat to two new upkeep spells, fog of war and another in the vein of kalus 2's spell but frezing instead of burning.
Ravyn - really just remove all of her abilities from herself, dual attack, quick work, and make them field marshals instead. Start from there and trim down as necessary.
Thyron - man that guy needs work. Peraonally what I want is a feat that grants side step and an additional initial attack for all models. Also, change his field marshal to something along the lines of 'whenever a model in this models battle group makes a mele attack it may make an additional mele attack targeting a different model'. That give his jacks the ability to properly clear tightly packed infantry. It could be changed to whenever a model buys an attack with focus it gets an additional attack if the first is to powerful.
O, and themes house shyeel arcanists and the magister go in all themes discordia goes in defenders, not the shyeel one (for the no AOE bubble as disco is an infantry support jack). houseguard are allowed in the shyeel theme. defenders bonuses changed to all warriors with a ranged weapon gain repo3, all warriors without a ranged weapon gain advance move. Just make the bonus applicable to all warrior models rather than just a couple units as it is now. Shadows - not sure here but I'd start giving infiltrators a big boost. Dawnguard theme - make marshaled jacks count towards free points. Its the only theme I can think of where two of the bonuses (free models and marshaled jacks) count against each other.
Make aiyana friendly faction. Frankly almost all other warmachine factions get her as friendly faction so... Finally, instead of an irregulars theme change the merc clause to say something like 'you may add two models/units that could be chosen by a non-theme retribution army to this army'. That gives all themes some additional models to chose from when making the theme but not a wholesale 'take anything' theme ala irregulars. Yes those models are friendly faction but again, if that wasn't generally allowed then ranking officers need to be shot in the head as well. This would give retribution an additional selection of options to draw from similar to how all other factions have lots of merc/minion options where ret has 4ish.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 8, 2018 23:00:34 GMT
I wanted to start somewhere reasonable but looking at MoW CID i just want to curl up in a ball and cry. The thought of a tanker getting off 2x SP10 boosted to hit POW16s makes sentinels irrelevant from this point out, even on snake eyes damage they die and they are our "heavy infantry".
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 8, 2018 23:08:39 GMT
I wanted to start somewhere reasonable but looking at MoW CID i just want to curl up in a ball and cry. The thought of a tanker getting off 2x SP10 boosted to hit POW16s makes sentinels irrelevant from this point out, even on snake eyes damage they die and they are our "heavy infantry". Luckily, it's a *Attack, so just the one SP10... though I doubt it's much consolation... :/
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 9, 2018 0:47:49 GMT
Huh... it's been so long, clean forgot about it until it was brought up on an FB thread...
Anyone for changes to the Gorgon?!
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