granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353 
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Post by granor on Jan 16, 2018 20:42:31 GMT
| team - player - list with #SA | Total Wins
| Florida Meta B - Matt - Rasheth 2
| 5
| Los2Wargame - Ben - Rasheth 2
| 4
| Top of 2 - Hal - Rasheth 2
| 3
| Magic Mike - Buck (Kirk) - Zaad2 2 / Rasheth 2
| 3
| Swamp Ass - Eric - Hexy 2 1 / Makeda1 2
| 3
| Florida Meta B - Tim - Hexy2 1
| 3
| Battle Driven - Dan - Rasheth 2
| 2 | Ride of the Four - Orion - Xerx2 2 / Rasheth 2
| 2 | One Beer - Paul - Hexy1 1
| 2 | Minnistakes - Dustin - Zaad2 1
| 1
| Nice and Snow - Tom - Zaad2 1
| 1
| Swamp Ass - James - Zaad2 1
| 0
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Jan 16, 2018 23:12:03 GMT
I got multiple comments on how good/op they are. Lots of disbelief that they could threaten that far.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Jan 17, 2018 1:32:01 GMT
win % of players with a single SA in their lists 28%
win % of players with double SA lists 62.8%
win % of players with a SA in each of their lists 53%
win % of players with double SA in one of their lists and no SA in the other: 70%
I have not been able to dig into what they played against yet
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Jan 18, 2018 11:26:07 GMT
Ugh.
I hate painting huge based models. I'll need to get an airbrush kit now, I suppose.
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Post by oranjejus on Jan 18, 2018 20:17:35 GMT
boozy because you're only playing in Team Tourneys where your team needs you to take that style list?  Seriously, good rules on the model but while ATC stats are fun I personally read nothing into them for the wider game. Especially for local metas 
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 31, 2018 11:57:19 GMT
boozy because you're only playing in Team Tourneys where your team needs you to take that style list? Seriously, good rules on the model but while ATC stats are fun I personally read nothing into them for the wider game. Especially for local metas I actually think its worse at a local level because it requires a lot of practice to play around. it threatens 23" on its own with its gun, is more durable than a khador jack, (by a box or 2) can kill a heavy on its own, and receives buffs really well. At least at the higher levels people have more experience against them. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 31, 2018 12:49:47 GMT
The strength of Derp Turtles is not just in how good their card is, they are greatly enhanced by the Extoller Soulward. Eyeless Sight and Magic Weapons means there is very little that can defend against them, and Eyeless Sight negates one of the biggest weaknesses of Battle Engines, being blinded.
It beggars belief how much above the power curve they are.
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Post by postindirty on Jan 31, 2018 20:39:17 GMT
boozy because you're only playing in Team Tourneys where your team needs you to take that style list? Seriously, good rules on the model but while ATC stats are fun I personally read nothing into them for the wider game. Especially for local metas This opinion on team events is also a statement that demands some scrutiny. Every time a podcast talks about a team event they warn that we suddenly have to be critical of what conclusions we draw. From what I can interpret is that this is because of two things; apparently team events are some sort of anomaly, and/or that the event format allows people to skew lists or bring esoteric things in the hope that they can be steered into match ups. The first is bogus simply because we can see the rise in popularity in team events. I listen to these podcasts and there seems to be a teams event every one to two months. While this is not at the frequency of the number of steamrollers being run out of people's shops/garages/alleyways, there is at least enough to observe and to draw conclusions from. The second point again is something observable; our of the lists and teams that do well, how far do you actually think skews and the match up process effected list composition to the point we'd see something that was so different from regular steamrollers or conventions? Does this mean that Ghost Fleet from the WTC is merely strong because of the team format pushing them into favourable match ups? Or is it, that the strongest lists in teams formats are also the strongest that you would find in non-team events, because they actually ARE strong skews in a wider range of match-ups and therefore make sense to bring to both types of format? The Siege Animantarax is a damn strong piece. It currently can be applied to a broad range of situations in a wide range of matchups, making it a powerful piece to use in singles and teams events. Data from the ATC supports this. I'm going to put my ass on the line and predict we'll see more Skorne lists with SAs creeping into the podiums other events. |
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Post by oranjejus on Feb 1, 2018 1:16:28 GMT
Ha, yeah I was poking a little fun at the common tag-line, while also reminding us all that it's still a valid comment. Your counter point is food for thought and it could be worth examining the bias that might exist behind its most common platform. Regarding team tourneys, how many players in all of Warmachine and Hordes have ever played in a team tourney? I think it's fair to assume very few compared to the total number that play on a regular basis. Steamroller tourneys exist in far larger numbers, but the majority of those are also at the smaller scale participant wise as you indicated. I notice that our general thirst for knowledge and desire to get better creates an emotional response of "Oh, well, that's that then - my current collection isn't complete and I must buy this thing because several other people have done well with it" It's not an unfair response, but I find it to be a knee-jerk one. Something I'm cautious of in my own reactions. The issue (if it's even worth calling it such) with singing the praises like we do is not that it _is_ wrong to draw a conclusion from team tourney data, only that we have to further test these conclusions in the common formats where you have less control over the match-ups. We've got several strong options that have issues in certain metas, and walk over others. We seem to only casually mention things like Immortal spam and Makeda Cats as a good option now, which contrasts with the time of their early tourney successes where they were trumpeted as the great hotness that would carry us through the conquest of all of Immoren. I may be a little prone to exaggeration, but I don't think anyone should feel obliged they have to buy airbrush kits to paint models they're really not keen on  |
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Post by postindirty on Feb 1, 2018 1:56:46 GMT
Well if you're not keen to own and paint SAs I'm not going to fault you for that. I don't think forgoing the SAs prevents you from building strong lists. But I do think that to not include them in lists will negatively affect one's ability to perform competitively however, which is something to consider if that is what your objective is.
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Post by postindirty on Feb 1, 2018 1:57:34 GMT
I also don't think immortal spam is all that shit-hot either, but that's probably just me :3
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Post by macdaddy on Feb 1, 2018 3:28:23 GMT
I also don't think immortal spam is all that shit-hot either, but that's probably just me :3 BUT IT LOOKS SO PRETTY |
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Feb 1, 2018 3:37:09 GMT
I have not played immortal spam but the games I have watched had the immortals being removed quickly. So I do not understand how the list does well
As far as the OP. I really like my double turtles list and was excited to see they seem to work outside my meta. Though my first outing with them outside my meta went poorly. Next time I should be able to play better
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Post by postindirty on Feb 2, 2018 0:35:59 GMT
I also don't think immortal spam is all that shit-hot either, but that's probably just me :3 BUT IT LOOKS SO PRETTY looks pretty ....USELESS |
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on Feb 2, 2018 12:28:51 GMT
If you can deliver it in large enough numbers it hits like a ton of bricks but delivering it is the problem, even under Zaal2's +5 armor feat that go down in alarming numbers. |
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