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Post by jpgreat1 on Jan 3, 2018 1:28:12 GMT
As title suggests, I want Kriel Company to go through CID.
Updates some of our lesser used models and clearly add more solos in that theme. Am I the only one who feels that way?
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Post by greenjello on Jan 3, 2018 2:11:05 GMT
I'd like to see the Highwaymen get another look. RNG8 is really short, even if they do have two attacks, and no other penalties for it.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Jan 3, 2018 2:53:20 GMT
Personally the Burrowers, both artillery crews, Scattergunners, Scouts, and Highwaymen needs something.
To me, if Burrowers got a command attachment that gave them Flare I wonder if that would be too much or enough to fix them.
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Post by deviantcad on Jan 3, 2018 3:04:59 GMT
My guess is we will not get another CID for a while. After reading though the KC thread it did seem like every list would have just been stronger in another theme.
I think as a balance to trolls durability they are supposed to have kind of weak shooting. Maybe highwaymen could swap swift hunter for run and gun to keep the theme. It gives them a bigger reward for the risk of going on so close. I almost wish they had something like practices maneuvers so at least they could CRA with out stepping on each others toes as much.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Jan 3, 2018 3:08:54 GMT
Many folks didn't think Sons of Tempest for Cygnar would go through CID until that fateful day on Lock and Load
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 3, 2018 3:28:13 GMT
Me thinks it will get looked at in 2018. Even if it’s kind of randomly thrown in with another CiD.
Really what KC needs is buffs to the Units it contains. The theme benefits are actually pretty decent. +1 to the starting roll and ignoring LoS through your own warrior Models is great.
It’s also the best way to run double War wagon and I can testify that double wagon builds are actually really playable.
Highwaymen need range 10 OR point blank at a minimum Rat 5 gunfighter is just garbage.
Borrowers could probably gain back point blank and be acceptable. They can be pretty hard to remove under the right caster. Grissel 1 as an example makes them Def 19 while dug in.
Bushwackers could probably gain a Rat Increase OR a points reduction. I actually think they are better than people think.
Scattergunners need a little bit more help. Not sure how to make them a worthwhile front line unit. Perhaps make them have higher pow Melee Weapons?
Both weapon crews need advanced deploy and the thumper needs to go up to Rat 6....
Boomhowler would also like some love. I honestly think a points reduction or advanced deploy makes them a very acceptable screen.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513 
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Post by joedj on Jan 3, 2018 5:35:14 GMT
Burrowers, Scouts, Sluggers, Scattergunners, Highwaymen...all in need of a CID look, similar to Man O Wars/Blighted Ogrun specifically targeted CID's incoming.
Providing Pyg Lookouts, while cute, is not sufficient.
I'd like to see/buy at least CA/WA for the units above to provide mini-Feat-esque one use abilities.
Imagine a one turn Flare or Beacon or True Sight or SNIPE or gains magical weapon or Assault or Blessed or AMBUSH (for their crappy range(s)) gains Continuous Fire (Horgle2!) or etc. The stated goal of MK3 was to make a distinct role for each unit, as much as possible. Alas, the units above share the role of 'absentee'.
I have played Scattergunners a few times with Grim1, for Feat to 'fix' RAT and MAT for one turn. Great against massed poorly ARM-ed, and lets face it poorly-positioned, infantry.
Spectacularly ineffective against any Carapace/anti-range tech (Cryx theme, yeah! or the like ~Skorne Cataphracts/Xerxes1/Krea), also ineffective against infantry-recur strategies.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Jan 3, 2018 7:38:01 GMT
Some ideas I had for awhile Burrowers gain a 4 point CA called Pyg Burrower Officer & Ammo Bearer - Officer has Slip away order and has the ability Tactics: Adept Tunneler - When the Burrow ability is used increase the movement to 4 " and placement to 6".
- The Ammo Bearer like the Ammo Porter for the Legion Archers gives an extra shot while within so many inches of the model.
This would increase effectiveness of Burrowers slightly, giving some models 2 shots and some extra movement shenanigans with slip away and adept tunneler. Would work wonders in combo with Pyg Lookouts, Grim2, Calandra, & Grim1.
Boomhowler and Company is one I do agree needs a slight change. Currently they are like worse versions of Raiders but rely way too heavily on boomhowler to be alive to be somewhat effective. A point decrease as well as unyielding should help these guys out. Perhaps with this change they will return to being the front line unit of choice like they were in MK2 but for trolls instead of Cygnar.
Highwayman as greenjello suggested should be range 10 with each pistol. I wouldn't be opposed if they gained a weapon attachment that had a hand cannon and a pistol. We really don't have a lot of weapon attachments I noticed (I'm speaking for hordes in general)
Scouts would be actually pretty good if they gained Ambush and Repo 3".
Scattergunners would be a lot more useful if the Gun Blade was a P+S 10 as oppose to a 9 as well as they gained a point of armor. These guys seemed as armored as Boomhowlers yet only arm 14? I would also like it if the CA gained a mini-feat to increase to spray ten.
The Thumper Crew just needs a range increase to 14 as oppose to 12. The momentum ability is nice but you have to be so damn close for you to be useful.
Pummeller Crew while nice would be better if it gained ROF 2
I would also like to see an extra solo or two.
1 solo would be the "Big game Hunter". A Grim wannabe RAT 7, stealth seeing solo with a pow 12 range 14 rifle with ammo shot types. He can choose between Flare or Grievous Wounds.
The other would be a Grizzled Trollkin Ex-Cygnar trencher character solo has your basic military rifle and a trench knife (but he is weapon master with his melee weapon). His abilities would be Battery Fire & Fire and Displace.
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Post by grabsnikk on Jan 3, 2018 8:17:41 GMT
Some ideas I had for awhile Burrowers gain a 4 point CA called Pyg Burrower Officer & Ammo Bearer - Officer has Slip away order and has the ability Tactics: Adept Tunneler - When the Burrow ability is used increase the movement to 4 " and placement to 6".
- The Ammo Bearer like the Ammo Porter for the Legion Archers gives an extra shot while within so many inches of the model.
This would increase effectiveness of Burrowers slightly, giving some models 2 shots and some extra movement shenanigans with slip away and adept tunneler. Would work wonders in combo with Pyg Lookouts, Grim2, Calandra.
This idea seems like it could be partially useful. The extra shot means that you would still only be playing them with Grim2 for hus feat as RAT4 RNG4 POW14 is still pretty garbage even with 2 shots each. Also I would never pay 17 points for this. For Burrowers to see play again, I really think that they need their old rules back. |
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Post by Trollock on Jan 3, 2018 10:04:48 GMT
It will happen, but i think there are plenty of other factions that will get attention first. We got a lot of changes recently, and even if it would be awesome for every unit to go through CID, i think other factions deserve some attention as well. I do not think that KC CID will happen during 2018 tbh. possibly 2019...
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Jan 3, 2018 12:09:49 GMT
I want pyg-steam-drill attachment that let them advance 6" / turn burrowing. I don't want old burrowers back. They were boringly good.
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Post by trollsareblue on Jan 3, 2018 12:22:12 GMT
I'd like to see Dozer & Smiggs available in-theme. Doesn't seem unreasonable.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 3, 2018 12:55:19 GMT
All they need to do is drop the 'Ranged Beast only' clause, so you can have access to Rage without taking a Mountain King.
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Jan 3, 2018 13:18:55 GMT
Quick question- how many of these units have people actually put on the table? Some of these units might pleasantly surprise you, especially when combined with our new toys like Kolgrima.
Highwaymen are a passable unit. Rat5 doesn’t seem great at a first glance, but CRA helps a lot- when I’ve played them, I’ve thought of them as being rat7 with one shot each*. Which is actually pretty good, when you think about it. They’re natively def13 and have pathfinder, so they’re reasonably survivable. And the range on their guns is a little sad, but they do have a total threat of 14”, which is respectable, especially when you consider they can be effective once they’re engaged. I’m not saying they’re a fantastic unit. But they’re better than they seem on paper.
Sluggers are bonkers good. Rat6 pow13 d3 shots! They’re great with anyone, but with Grim2 they feel borderline broken. I genuinely can’t believe that anyone who has put this unit on the table could complain about them.
Will Pagani says fire eaters are the best unit in the game. You can agree or disagree with that, but they’re inarguably a very, very good unit.
The thumper crew is pretty good too. Momentum is a really useful rule. I’ve played 2 of them and 2 war wagons with Ragnor. Watching your opponent try to position their caster in a place where they can’t be knocked down is hilarious.
I haven’t played burrowers, but try this. Imagine they were a brand new unit. I think we’d all be going crazy over a unit of pow14 guns for 13 points, especially in a faction that can give out +2 rat, snipe and mortality. Yes, burrowing is too slow and you’ll probably never use it. But when your opponent can’t kill that one pyg that you left dug in at the back of a zone because he’s def 17, you’ll be pretty pleased.
I think rather than waiting for PP to fix these units, we should be trying new combos and ideas. This isn’t cygnar, we aren’t going to get trencher long gunners!
*for clarity’s sake, highwaymen can’t combine their 2 shots into one shot. But 2 of them can buddy up and do 2 combined shots between them.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 3, 2018 14:21:29 GMT
Quick question- how many of these units have people actually put on the table? Some of these units might pleasantly surprise you, especially when combined with our new toys like Kolgrima. Highwaymen are a passable unit. Rat5 doesn’t seem great at a first glance, but CRA helps a lot- when I’ve played them, I’ve thought of them as being rat7 with one shot each*. Which is actually pretty good, when you think about it. They’re natively def13 and have pathfinder, so they’re reasonably survivable. And the range on their guns is a little sad, but they do have a total threat of 14”, which is respectable, especially when you consider they can be effective once they’re engaged. I’m not saying they’re a fantastic unit. But they’re better than they seem on paper. Rat 5 is terrible when you need to get within 8" of your target and end up clumping up to get meaningful CRA's. They literally cannot un-jam themselves, and have no fighting ability at all in combat meaning they fail as a short ranged skirmish unit. Range 8 is just stupidity. They are not effective at all once engaged, because rat 5 is terrible in melee. They struggle to hit def 12.... Sluggers are bonkers good. Rat6 pow13 d3 shots! They’re great with anyone, but with Grim2 they feel borderline broken. I genuinely can’t believe that anyone who has put this unit on the table could complain about them. Yes, sluggers are great. But not broken by any means. They do lots of work for sure, I watched a unit almost one round a wold wrath on Horgle 2's feat turn. Will Pagani says fire eaters are the best unit in the game. You can agree or disagree with that, but they’re inarguably a very, very good unit. I have taken comments like this less seriously over the course of mk3. I really respect Pagani, but comments like that make me question a lot....Fire eaters are really good, but compare therm to sentry stone and manikins or the hellmouth and they don't exactly scream "best unit in the game". The thumper crew is pretty good too. Momentum is a really useful rule. I’ve played 2 of them and 2 war wagons with Ragnor. Watching your opponent try to position their caster in a place where they can’t be knocked down is hilarious. Just don't put the caster behind a low def heavy? Or put the caster behind a forest, because the thumpers cannot psychically move far enough to get around it. Rat 5 needs un-boosted 7's to hit def 12...Its pretty unreliable in an actual game...trust me, I have seen them in action enough to know that. "Aiming" is a cute solution but they are such a low range and slow speed that they typically cannot aim and fire until turn 3... I haven’t played burrowers, but try this. Imagine they were a brand new unit. I think we’d all be going crazy over a unit of pow14 guns for 13 points, especially in a faction that can give out +2 rat, snipe and mortality. Yes, burrowing is too slow and you’ll probably never use it. But when your opponent can’t kill that one pyg that you left dug in at the back of a zone because he’s def 17, you’ll be pretty pleased. rat 4 sucks, and they die trivially if not dug in, meaning every game I have seen them in (about 5 so far in mk3) they just shoot, miss a lot, and die after they stop digging in. You say all this stuff about mortality, but typically in my games if grim is in range to plop down a mortality he is in serious danger. The rune-bearer can try but its not super reliable. There are exceptions to this obviously but its a risky move to make a unit do something other than miss def 12 half the time on average rolls. My local troll player wants kriel company to work so much, he has been using it almost exclusiveness since it came out. I have seen every single unit available in the theme in action at least 2 or 3 times in mk3. The units have glaring issues and those are not revolving around the troll community "not thinking outside the box" This is perhaps one of the most creative communities in the current meta based on posts I have seen throughout mark 3. |
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